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Riverside Swiss #1 a bidding quandry

#1 User is offline   bhall 

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Posted 2008-February-03, 21:38

Scoring: IMP

Last match of the regional Swiss, likely to determine the winner


East opens a weak 2♦, and you choose to pass. West raises to 3♦, over which partner (1) bids 4♦, or (2) doubles, while East passes in either case.

Try (if you can) to ignore (2) while considering what to bid with the East hand in the first auction, (1). If partner is 6-5 in the majors, as well he might be, do you want to try 4♥ or 5♣?

Now consider (2), ignoring (1): Can you afford to cue 4♦ and correct 4M to 5♣? Or might partner take this sequence as a second cue in support of his major? Should you perhaps content yourself with 5♣?
just plain Bill
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#2 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-February-03, 21:58

(1) 4♥. Partner has not doubled, he chose to show majors, quite likely he has a singleton club.
(2) 5♣. We could have bid 4♣. Partner will sometimes be able to raise 5♣ to 6 when it is right.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-February-03, 22:16

This seems clear, I expect a good story.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   bhall 

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Posted 2008-February-03, 22:27

Hannie, on Feb 3 2008, 11:16 PM, said:

This seems clear, I expect a good story.

You will get one, tomorrow.
just plain Bill
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#5 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-February-03, 22:53

bhall, on Feb 3 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

Hannie, on Feb 3 2008, 11:16 PM, said:

This seems clear, I expect a good story.

You will get one, tomorrow.

I spoke with Dayou. Congratulations Bill on winning :)

4♥ / 5♣ here too.
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#6 User is offline   bhall 

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Posted 2008-February-03, 23:06

pclayton, on Feb 3 2008, 11:53 PM, said:

I spoke with Dayou. Congratulations Bill on winning :)

4♥ / 5♣ here too.

Thanks, Phil. My teammates were Dayou Zhou and Jon Wright at the other table, and Joel Hoersch was my partner (who opened 2♦ on this hand).
just plain Bill
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-February-04, 06:09

I don't think 5C is so clear on part 2, 4C must be at least reasonable (I do not think partner rates to have a normal takeout X hand when we have this). Partner would X with 6421 etc a lot of the time. If we jump to 5C I'm not sure what we will do.

IMO hands that are very strong opposite a fit, but that are weak opposite a complete misfit where partner is going to X and try and bid a suit (yes this shows a flexible hand in this case after a preempt, but also would show a strong hand) are very tough to bid. This is what happens when partner has 2 completely different types of hand possible for his X. Usually if you can you should try to cater to getting out of his way if the 2nd hand type is extremely likely (for a more clearcut example if it were to go 1C X p and you had --- xx Qxxxxxxx xxx you shouldn't do anything crazy).

All this being said, partner could have a "normal" takeout X shape, or an abnormal one and we still belong in five or six clubs (obviously if we bid 4C and he bid 4S we would bid 5C, but now he will know we have a lot of clubs and not that great of a hand).

I would probably end up bidding 5C but I don't think it's so clear.

I do think 4H on part one is clear.
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#8 User is offline   bhall 

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Posted 2008-February-04, 10:10

Scoring: IMP


This was the complete deal. At our table, after the cue bid, South bid 4♥ and went quietly down one. Biting her tongue. At the other table, our South chose 5♣ after the double, was raised to 6, and made 7. That was 16 IMPs (and the event) to us.

I think North at our table chose an approach out of the 1950's, when cue bids showed massive three-suiters, and double was more often converted to penalty. He would not get much sympathy today (especially from his wife). Our South, after the double, considered 4♦ briefly, but saw the trap. Better 5♣ making 6 than 6♣ or 6M (after "correcting" 4M to 5♣), failing.
just plain Bill
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#9 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-February-04, 11:36

I was expecting 5-5-0-3 given the cuebid and the double. Never considered a normal takeout double shape.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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