[benlessard]

In imps do you play garbage stayman ? If so...



1Nt---2C----2D----2H ???

A--- 2H is to play partner must pass
B----2H is to play but partner can correct to 2S with 3S & 2H.

C----2H is INV so opener with a max has to bid again. (but cannot correct to 2S if minimum) -edited
D----2H is inv but opener with 32 can correct to 2S.

[awm]

I'd go with B.

The point of stayman on these hands is to find your 8-card major fits. When we have an 8-card major fit (especially a 4-4 fit) it will very often be better than playing 1NT or playing a 7-card major fit.

If we don't have an 8-card major fit, it doesn't matter so much whether we play in a 4-3 seven card fit or a 5-2 seven card fit. It's not the case that one of these is "usually better" than the other or anything like that; it depends on considerations like the strength of the suit in the longer hand, the overall values, possible doubleton in the 3-card hand, etc. It's not realistic to diagnose these sorts of things and still stop at 2M over 1NT, so playing in either fit is okay by me. I just want to avoid six card fits and find eight card fits!

Note that 6-4 hands are (relatively) rare and I wouldn't necessarily bid stayman on these (often when partner is 3-4 in the respective suits the 6-3 fit plays better anyway, and we're guaranteed a fit in the 6-card suit so it often pays to just bid it/transfer to it and forget the side suit).

Correcting when 3-2 in the majors helps when responder is 5-5 or 4-4, and it's basically break even when responder is 4-5.

[jdonn]

awm, on Dec 21 2007, 12:22 PM, said:

If we don't have an 8-card major fit, it doesn't matter so much whether we play in a 4-3 seven card fit or a 5-2 seven card fit. It's not the case that one of these is "usually better" than the other or anything like that; it depends on considerations like the strength of the suit in the longer hand, the overall values, possible doubleton in the 3-card hand, etc.

I don't know how you state that with such certainty. It is my experience that the 5-2 definitely tends to be better than the 4-3 on hands with less than game values. But I still wouldn't try to imply that I've proven it or that it's a fact. Anyway I choose B also. As I think Ken mentioned recently, this also allows you to bid garbage stayman with 3415 and re-correct partner's 2♠ to 3♣. I'll pay off to 3262 exactly (3352 partner should clearly pass, even though some hand hogs don't.)

[benlessard]

http://homepage.mac.com/bridgeguys/Convent...anCrawling.html

Might be an improvement but the downside is that 1Nt---2C---2D----2H (doesnt suggest H is longer now) So your going to endup is 2S if responder is 45 (& with 46 you have to transfer now).

+ far from convinced that 3C 3415 VS 3244,3253 will bring great result.

The major benefit of this is that since partner often going to correct to 2S. Then 2C---2D----2S could be used as INV (with or without 4H).

[jdonn]

benlessard, on Dec 21 2007, 01:25 PM, said:

+ far from convinced that 3C 3415 VS 3244,3253 will bring great result.

That is sort of missing the point. It's not that you are hoping to end in clubs. It simply lets you look for a 4-4 heart fit, if you don't have that then a 4-3 spade fit, if you don't have that then a 4-3 heart fit, and if you don't have any of that you can fall back on clubs where at the very least you will have a fit. But the goal is clearly to land in a major.

[Apollo81]

B. I think Standard (or maybe expert standard) is that 1n-2c-2d-2s is invitational with 5s, not garbage. Thus weak 55xx hands would bid 1n-2c-2d-2s.

[ArtK78]

C is old fashioned Standard American bidding. It is not garbage Stayman. In old fashioned Standard American with transfers, 2♣ followed by a bid in a major suit was invitational. Opener had two options: Decline by passing or bidding 2NT, or accept by raising to game or bidding 3NT. Opener, with 6 hearts, could correct to hearts if opener bid notrump.

D is a very odd treatment. It is not garbage Stayman. I don't know exactly what it is. I guess you are showing 45 in the majors with invitational values (with 54 in the majors and invitational values you would bid 2♠).

[benlessard]

Quote

That is sort of missing the point.

You are right. Only when opener is 32 youre going to play in 3C unlikely.

What about correcting with 33 ? I think its better to correct to S since it free up 2C--2D---2S & 2C---2H---2S for INV with long S

What ive think might be best is something like ...



Weak.

55,54,45, you bid 2C followed by 2H.
64,46 you transfer

INV
55,54,64 you bid 2C followe by a H raise or 2S(inv)
with 46 guess transfer followed by the INV bid (2nt or 2S)

1Nt----2C----2D----2H-----2S------(2NT) become light inv with 4H
1Nt----2C----2D----2H-----2S------(3m) to play (3415) (3406)

A--1Nt----2D----2H-----2S become forcing
B--1NT---2D-----2H----2NT INV with 5H
C--1Nt----2H-----2S----2Nt is forcing

A & B can be swithed & you can play 4card M transfers with a way to show long 5/6m+4M and a way to show 5M+m

[benlessard]

Quote

D is a very odd treatment. It is not garbage Stayman. I don't know exactly what it is. I guess you are showing 45 in the majors with invitational values (with 54 in the majors and invitational values you would bid 2♠).

yes D is crap