[benlessard]

1Nt-----(pass)------2C------(pass)
2D------(X)---------???


what do you play here ?


1Nt------(pass)-------2C-------(X)
???


Im used to play that XX = to play (responder) & invite to play (by the opener). Pass = at least Qxx. The rest system on but with less then Qxx but im sure there is something better out there.

[awm]

Well the first auction is funny because the double could be "takeout of diamonds" or "showing diamonds" and both treatments make a fair amount of sense. This also isn't really a "lead directing" double because the guy who doubled will be on lead 99% of the time.

In the second auction I have the following agreements:

XX = "I have really good clubs" normally five clubs or a very strong four-card club suit, strong suggestion to play 2♣XX
Pass = "I am concerned about a possible club lead"; normally no club control. Responder can redouble to force partner to respond to stayman.
Bid = "I have a club stopper" and otherwise the normal response to stayman.

[jdonn]

awm, on Dec 13 2007, 01:28 PM, said:

Well the first auction is funny because the double could be "takeout of diamonds" or "showing diamonds" and both treatments make a fair amount of sense.

Takeout of diamonds? That's a new one, I don't see how it makes any sense.

[awm]

The argument for takeout of diamonds:

(1) A lead-directional double makes no sense, since the doubler is going to be on lead.
(2) A hand with diamonds could've overcalled at first turn (depends a little on your defense to 1NT of course) so it may not be that likely.
(3) In contrast to point 2, "takeout of diamonds" patterns like 4414 often have no real way into the bidding at first turn.
(4) The 2♦ bid could easily be passed, perhaps more of an issue if 2♣ was puppet stayman but always a possibility. In this case a hand with short diamonds would've liked to encourage partner to balance.
(5) Surely 1NT-p-2♣-p-2♦-p-p-X is takeout, and it makes some sense for double to hold similar meanings in both positions when a non-forcing bid is made by opponents.

In general I like an agreement where calls which are potentially artificial but non-forcing made by opponents are treated as natural for the purpose of a double. Some other examples:

1NT - 2♣(CAPP) - Pass - 2♦ (basically auto) - DBL

2♦ (MULTI) - Pass - 2♥ (pass/correct) - DBL

I would play both of these doubles as takeout of the last bid suit, despite the fact that opponents need not actually have that suit (neither opponent has necessarily shown length there). The reason is that it seems clear-cut that a double of one of these bids in balancing seat must be for takeout, and it becomes hard to balance accurately when the doubles take on asymmetric meanings.

[jdonn]

awm, on Dec 13 2007, 01:50 PM, said:

The argument for takeout of diamonds:

(1) A lead-directional double makes no sense, since the doubler is going to be on lead.
(2) A hand with diamonds could've overcalled at first turn (depends a little on your defense to 1NT of course) so it may not be that likely.
(3) In contrast to point 2, "takeout of diamonds" patterns like 4414 often have no real way into the bidding at first turn.
(4) The 2♦ bid could easily be passed, perhaps more of an issue if 2♣ was puppet stayman but always a possibility. In this case a hand with short diamonds would've liked to encourage partner to balance.
(5) Surely 1NT-p-2♣-p-2♦-p-p-X is takeout, and it makes some sense for double to hold similar meanings in both positions when a non-forcing bid is made by opponents.

(1) It can be used to compete.
(2) That isn't really true, it could just have a good suit and not much else.
(3) Those hands wouldn't have wanted to bid, and if they did they can show majors.
(4) It is rarely passed, and when it is responder has both majors anyway!
(5) Apples and oranges...

[CSGibson]

I think doubling 2 diamonds for "lead" has some merit if you are a risk taker who likes to help set the defense. Something like AQ9x, where you don't really want to lead into the opener but definitely want a diamond switch after might work, assuming you're willing to risk playing 2♦XX every once in a while.

Of course, maybe my thought that a lead director is not totally ridiculous is a sign of playing matchpoints too much.

[cherdano]

I have never discussed the second auction.

On the second auction just 2D = diamonds, pass = no major no diamonds (thus some clubs) and XX to play works well enough for me. You can cue 3C later to ask about a stopper.

[paulg]

benlessard, on Dec 13 2007, 07:18 PM, said:

1Nt------(pass)-------2C-------(X)
???

We play:

XX = maximum with 4+♥
2♦ = maximum with 4+♠
2♥ = minimum with 4+♥
2♠ = minimum with 4+♠