[elwood913]

1♠ - 2♦
3♣ - 3♥
3NT - 4♥
6♥

---

[Mr. Dodgy]

south

[neilkaz]

OK to be brief. Even if playing SAYC rather than 2/1 GF (the land I come from) 2♦ is just asking for trouble as it is too light. Just bid 1NT.

3♣ is a bit of an overbid, but if 2♦ has the needed 10 HCP then forcing to game (for me in SAYC) isn't so bad.

3♥ shows at least GF hand and one unsuited for 3NT or looking for a slam. An awful call in the face of a missfit. N is so very unlikely to have 3 card support.

Once N bids 3NT , South must pass "Mom..stop the train, I wanna get off !!"

4♥ is a recipe for problems and N , rightly thinking S has the World's Fair bids 6♥ instead of the obvious 4NT to make sure not off too many key cards/aces.

Blame South 80% North 20% (6H is bad, but not nearly as bad as S's calls)

[elwood913]

Srry..should have said: sayc - 2/1 is not game forcing and 1nt is not forcing

[neilkaz]

elwood913, on Nov 12 2007, 11:02 PM, said:

Srry..should have said: sayc - 2/1 is not game forcing and 1nt is not forcing

OK I still bid 1NT with this 7 HCP likely missfit. If passed out (not likely as opps can bid..I HOPE as they may be fixed here if they do) it is likely high enough and a better chance than overbidding.

[jdonn]

South was far worse. North made one overbid at the end that could have worked. South made large overbids throughout, and should have passed 3NT as his hand was (except that he had overbid) essentially described.

[han]

I don't like 6H but SOooouuuuuttthhhhh.

[cherdano]

6♥ is beyond crazy, but South was worse.

[gwnn]

it doesn't "feel" right to bid 1NT on the S hand, but he knows pard has the blacks and there's gonna be no fit to be found, so he must try to bid just that

[helene_t]

2♦ was beyond crazy but 6♥ was worse.

Btw if S really needed to overbid, 2♥ would be better than 2♦.

[skjaeran]

The worst bids in descending order starting with the worst:
4♥ - 3♥ - 2♦ - 3♣ - 6♥.
3♣ is an overbid and 6♥ too, but less so.
2♦ is a huge overbid and south's continuation is insane.

[Apollo81]

South was clearly worse. Except for the 6♥ call, I'd have replicated North's bids.

[awm]

skaeran, on Nov 13 2007, 02:47 PM, said:

The worst bids in descending order starting with the worst:
4♥ - 3♥ - 2♦ - 3♣ - 6♥.
3♣ is an overbid and 6♥ too, but less so.
2♦ is a huge overbid and south's continuation is insane.

I disagree with this evaluation completely!

I think 6♥ is a terrible call. Opener has already shown his extras by his high reverse into 3♣. There is nothing in particular about this hand that recommends the 6♥ call. It is not particularly control rich (the club cards may be worthless opposite partner's hand for example), there is no real fit (partner has shown 5♥-6♦ and we are 2-1 in those suits). If we need to ruff diamonds to establish partner's hand, then we have only two trumps in dummy with which to do it, a trump lead is likely, and ruffing with the ♥A might promote a trump for the enemy. Since I can't imagine passing 4♥ with a singleton heart (why play a 5-1 fit?) if this hand doesn't pass 4♥ what hand (consistent with the 3♣ high reverse) does?

The 3♣ bid seems very normal to me. Isn't 15 hcp enough for bidding 3♣ on 5-5 shape? I understand the idea that you should have extras for a high reverse, but the combination of extra points and an extra club seems like plenty. I can't imagine rating the 3♣ bid as worse than 6♥.

As for the south bids, I think south has a very legitimate problem over 1♠. I'm sure that 1NT is the "textbook" bid but there are many hands where you play a ridiculous 1NT when cold for 4♥. Even if partner bids 2♣ or 2♠ over 1NT, this hand is far from over (you are quite likely to reach the wrong fit). I agree that 2♦ is an overbid and I don't love it or anything, but this is an annoying problem hand.

After 3♣, it seems normal to try and bid out your pattern? I suppose it could be better to try 3♦ here, but are we really ever going to play 3NT? We've overbid on this seven-count in the hopes that we will find a fit (and that our overbidding will facilitate finding the best fit). It seems silly now to decide "oh well, we might as well play 3NT on 22 high." I think once south bids 2♦ and north bids 3♣, basically all roads lead to a red suit game.

I'd rate the bids (starting from the worst):

6♥ - 3♥ - 2♦ - 4♥ - 3♣

North made the worst single call, and his call was also the one that got N/S to an awful spot (4♥ seems to have some play, and this is a tough pair of hands in any case). On the other hand, south made three potentially poor bids, and the 2♦ call was an aggressive gamble that may not have been best.

I think it's pretty close to even here as far as blame goes.

[sceptic]

elwood913, on Nov 13 2007, 03:44 AM, said:

<!-- NORTHSOUTH begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> Unknown </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table border='1'> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> AQJ92 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> AT </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> 6 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> KJ653 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> QJ975 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> KJ9832 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> T9 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td> 1♠ - 2♦
3♣ - 3♥
3NT - 4♥
6♥ </td> </tr> </table><!-- NORTHSOUTH end -->

I think South should bid 3 diamonds, as they have a misfit and all of a sudden 6/5 does not look so nice, I do not think a GF bid was the right way to go, maybe be 3NT was better than 3 diamonds I am not sure

he could always bid 1NT as first bid but what the heck at least he may be able to do something with his two suits

[mikeh]

In standard, N's 3♣ is borderline: it establishes a game-force (it is technically known as a high-level reverse) and, with only 15 hcp and a misfit, is a mild overbid.

And 6♥ is idiotic, having already shown a big hand, while not having one, committing to a slam on a misfit with a 5-2 trump suit is nuts.

So N bid badly.

But he bid infinitely better than S.

I have sympathy for 2♦. It's not my choice (but standard ain't my choice either), but I understand it.

The real crime came with the (words fail me) bid of 3♥. Even if S (correctly) interpreted N's 3♣ as showing extras, and even if there could still exist a 5-3 heart fit (and of course there could) bidding 3♥ is the sign of a novice or an attack of insanity induced by the horror of the auction to date.

If I were compelled to bid 2♦, surely the best followup is 3♦ and then pass 3N, if lucky enough to hear that call. And, if truly hoping for a heart fit, maybe opener, with a strong 5=3=1=4 will bid 3♥. I'm not advocating 3♦ to cater to that remote possibility, but 3♦ is the weakest call available and that must make it best.

Having heard 3N, N continued to panic, probably playing, telepathically, adjective bridge: 4♥ 'to play'. Of course telepathic adjective bridge requires that partner receive and understand the telepathy and N didn't.

So both players bid poorly. If there were 200% blame to go around, I'd give S 176% and N 24%. And the auction looks like there should be at least 200%

[jdonn]

skaeran, on Nov 13 2007, 02:47 PM, said:

The worst bids in descending order starting with the worst:
4♥ - 3♥ - 2♦ - 3♣ - 6♥.
3♣ is an overbid and 6♥ too, but less so.
2♦ is a huge overbid and south's continuation is insane.

I'm very surprised to see 3♣ be criticized at all. It seems like a completely normal bid.

[brianshark]

1♠, 3♣ and 3NT seem normal. North's final 6♥ bid was pushy and probably ill-judged considering the misfit.

South's bidding was what I expect from someone who learned bridge yesterday and forgot about the need to have pts to respond on the 2-level.

[kenberg]

Holding the N hand I would pass 4H. The advertised shape certainly suggests pessimism even if S has his bids.

Holding the S hand, I would bid 1N at my first turn. The fact that it isn't forcing doesn't concern me at all. I have noticed that when I hold a spade void, partner usually bids 2S over 1NT. Here he has only five, but he will bid an informative 2C. Since passing was an option I now know he has at least nine black cards. So I bid 2D: Modest values, long diamonds, 6-10 (or so) highs. I imagine everyone is now looking for the exit. Partner, noticing that no one on the other side has bid hearts, can make a fair guess as to roughly what's going on. 2D is, I suppose, playable.

I don't think I want to evaluate which call is worst. I believe that 6H and 2D are both very far from anything I would do.

[skjaeran]

jdonn, on Nov 13 2007, 11:13 PM, said:

skaeran, on Nov 13 2007, 02:47 PM, said:

The worst bids in descending order starting with the worst:
4♥ - 3♥ - 2♦ - 3♣ - 6♥.
3♣ is an overbid and 6♥ too, but less so.
2♦ is a huge overbid and south's continuation is insane.

I'm very surprised to see 3♣ be criticized at all. It seems like a completely normal bid.

I'd like the ♣T (or possibly 9) to GF here.