[elwood913]

HI,

NV vs V

Opponents open and respond 2/1 (srry, don't remember if it's 2/1 game force), do you preempt with this hand?

1♥ - p - 2♦ - ?

---

I can reasonably but not surely count my hand to 5 tricks so would like to preempt with 3♠. However, am am worried that:

1) I can't surely count my hand to 5 tricks...i can lose 2 trumps if the opponents have the A and 4 to the 8, 9 , or 10.
2 ) the opponents have shown great strength, so I am more worried about suffering a big penalty.
3) They haven't shown any evidence of a fit so I am worried they will be happier to X and take their penalty against me, and that my p is less likely to hold a lot of spades.
4) The preemptive value is less because they have already conveyed a lot of information.

I'd like to preempt to tell my p about my hand, but am worried about the above. So, what should I do?

Thx,
Bill

[kenrexford]

Yes. I'd bid a preemptive 2♠.

I'm not meaning to be funny, really. The point is that a 2♠ call here has a lot of preemptive effect, anyway, even without the jump. Opener cannot any longer bid 2♥, his 3♥ call is probably ambiguous to his partner, his double is vague, the opponents end up in rarely sailed waters. Partner is able to add to the fun by bidding some number of spades.

The other point is that partner will not expect a 2♠ call in the face of a 2/1 auction to be 15+ HCP's. It's meddlesome.

3♠, in contrast, might work. But, I like 2♠. Does enough.

[neilkaz]

2S for me is enough, although I might bid 3S if white vs red.

[elwood913]

Hi,
Thx,

I don't like 2♠ because i think my p will expect more from me, if not in high cards then in distribution...in that auction there's a bunch of distribution going around for everyone to have their bid, and I sure enough don't have that distribution so i'm the one who's lying....so, if you want to bid 2♠, okay...but i don't...
so if you have to bid 3♠ or pass, your partner expecting 3♠ to show the ability to take 5 tricks with spades trump, what do you bid?

....or am i wrong about 2♠?

[mikeh]

elwood913, on Nov 12 2007, 10:21 PM, said:

Hi,
Thx,

I don't like 2♠ because i think my p will expect more from me, if not in high cards then in distribution...in that auction there's a bunch of distribution going around for everyone to have their bid, and I sure enough don't have that distribution so i'm the one who's lying....so, if you want to bid 2♠, okay...but i don't...
so if you have to bid 3♠ or pass, your partner expecting 3♠ to show the ability to take 5 tricks with spades trump, what do you bid?

....or am i wrong about 2♠?

I don't understand this post: if I read it correctly, you want to reject 2♠ for lack of distribution and subsititute a 3♠ call? Most would, I think, expect more shape for 3♠ than for 2♠.

Personally, I pretty well always bid 2♠ here. I understand 3♠ at favourable, but I wouldn't make the call... but I tend to be fairly conservative compared to a lot of tournament players.

[elwood913]

Mike,

I understand your confusion...I don't like either call.
I'm saying 2♠ is out of the question for me because it will misrepresent my hand to my p...
3♠ might then be reasonable becdause at least p will know what to expect..5 trump winners and nothing else, and can then intelligently decide whether or not to compete. My p likes 3♠ so I'm asking to see if it has some merit.

it's starting to sound like 2♠ has the same force as 3♠ but with more safety...should i just assume my p won't take it as a big bid in the face of the auction and make it as the best descriptive/safe/interfering bid I have available?

Thx

[neilkaz]

3♠ has plenty of merit NV vs V (I failed to see vul initially).

Often you'll find a good 4♠ save over their game and sometimes they'll guess wrong and I think you want PD to lead a ♠ vs 3NT.

[pclayton]

2♠. Gets the message across.

[gwnn]

2♠ is never constructive, maybe maybe vs. stone age acol where they open on 10 and 2/1 with 7.5 - Frances will tell us for sure, but I think vs those systems it make sense to bid on the two level only on good hands, not only good suits.

[cherdano]

elwood913, on Nov 12 2007, 09:55 PM, said:

Mike,

I understand your confusion...I don't like either call.
I'm saying 2♠ is out of the question for me because it will misrepresent my hand to my p...
3♠ might then be reasonable becdause at least p will know what to expect..5 trump winners and nothing else, and can then intelligently decide whether or not to compete. My p likes 3♠ so I'm asking to see if it has some merit.

it's starting to sound like 2♠ has the same force as 3♠ but with more safety...should i just assume my p won't take it as a big bid in the face of the auction and make it as the best descriptive/safe/interfering bid I have available?

Thx

2♠ doesn't show a good hand just a good suit after the opponents have forced to game. Thinking of it as a pure and solid weak 2♠ overcall is pretty close.

[elwood913]

I see what you all are saying, that 2♠ can't confuse pard, so is a fine bid. 3♠ is a little more adventuresome, and might also work well. I'll try them out and see what happens.
Thx.

[whereagles]

yeah, 2♠. as others have said, this cannot be a strong hand unlesss opps are psyching

[P_Marlowe]

whereagles, on Nov 13 2007, 11:31 AM, said:

yeah, 2♠. as others have said, this cannot be a strong hand unlesss opps are psyching

And if they have psyched, you know
you will beat them in the next boards.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[skjaeran]

3♠ is fine with me. So is 2♠.