[cherdano]

whereagles, on Oct 28 2007, 04:13 PM, said:

See, had one bid 1NT before, one could now pass without a qualm.

As it is, it's another guess, at a much worse situation than before.

Surely you are joking Mr. eagles.
What are you worried about? If we had game, partner would have acted. We might mist a 5-4 club fit, but bidding 1N wouldn't have encouraged partner to show clubs at all.

[P_Marlowe]

cherdano, on Oct 29 2007, 10:51 AM, said:

whereagles, on Oct 28 2007, 04:13 PM, said:

See, had one bid 1NT before, one could now pass without a qualm.

As it is, it's another guess, at a much worse situation than before.

Surely you are joking Mr. eagles.
What are you worried about? If we had game, partner would have acted. We might mist a 5-4 club fit, but bidding 1N wouldn't have encouraged partner to show clubs at all.

Thats not 100% sure, we are in the B/I section,
so it is not clear if opener would have acted
without an encouraging signal.

... And that may have been his point.


With kind regards
Marlowe

[jtfanclub]

jillybean2, on Oct 28 2007, 02:25 AM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: All Scoring: IMP

♠ 8732 ♥ 85 ♦ Q5 ♣ AJT84

West North East South

 -     1♥    1♠    ?
  

Your bid

This is why I love negative free bids, which makes this an easy (albeit minimum) 2♣ call.

[gwnn]

jtfanclub, on Oct 29 2007, 06:19 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Oct 28 2007, 02:25 AM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: All Scoring: IMP

♠ 8732 ♥ 85 ♦ Q5 ♣ AJT84

West  North East  South

-    1♥    1♠    ?
 

Your bid

This is why I love negative free bids, which makes this an easy (albeit minimum) 2♣ call.

pretty subminimum

[whereagles]

Well...... Since some EXPERTS are having trouble understanding my 1NT bid, I must agree beginners will probably have a hard time following it.

For clarity, here's why I bid it: I want to bid my hand as quickly I can. I think it is better to make a slight distortion and bid 1NT than to lose time passing and hoping for the best. As you've seen, later developments justified my approach.

Now for some comments:

cherdano: I'm not joking, and this isn't about a game. If pard has, say, 13-14, it's our hand and we must tell that to pard RIGHT NOW because next round might be too late (as it turned out to be). I agree bidding 1NT might have not been enough to find a club fit, but passing sure does a much better job of burying it

Frances: perhaps you loath to bid NT without stoppers. You might be right, but I totally disagree with that view because priorities in bidding aren't to show stoppers, but rather shape and strenght. 1NT is spot-on on strength and does a decent job on shape. It doesn't show a stopper because that's a requirement secondary to shape/strength.

As for what pard might do with x AKQxxxx Axx Kx, I say to blast 3NT is just lazy (not to mention I'd open that 2♣.. lol). This hand bids 2♠ to ask pard whether he's serious about his stop.

I really think the stopper requirement is a stone-age requirement

[Trumpace]

whereagles, on Oct 29 2007, 05:13 PM, said:

<snip>

As you've seen, later developments justified my approach.

<snip>

Why so?

Just this hand is not justification enough. I am not saying it (the 1NT bid) is wrong or right (I have no clue), but the claim that this one hand justifies that bid is ridiculous.

[whereagles]

Well, if you think "justification" is ridiculous, change that to "vindicated".

There, happy?

[keylime]

I confess I don't bid 1NT here, no do I double since I lack some diamonds. If anything, I would bid an offbeat 2♥ over 1NT, especially with honor-doubleton. However, I have played with folks that will bid 1NT to show some values.

[hrothgar]

whereagles, on Oct 30 2007, 02:11 AM, said:

Well, if you think "justification" is ridiculous, change that to "vindicated".

There, happy?

In what way have you been vindicated?

Virtually every poster here disagrees with you.
Multiple world class players say that 1NT is a bad bid.

The opponents have reached the two level, vulnerable, in a no-fit auction, facing a bad trump break.

Your partner (who probably on has 1-2 Spades) couldn't find any kind of descriptive bid.

And you, somehow, think that

(A) You're badly positioned
(B) You would have been better off bidding 1NT

[andy_h]

pass. I see no reason to distort my hand with clubs when partner can still act in the auction.

[jdonn]

Totally obvious pass, every bid had at least one flaw that makes it clearly wrong. It's a good lesson that you don't have to bid just because you have enough points to make a bid correct if you held some other hand.

This is not only one of the worst possible auctions to bid notrump without a stopper, but the worst holding in a suit bid on your right (xxxx) to bid notrump without a stopper. If I was forced to bid I would bid 2♣.

[whereagles]

hrothgar, on Oct 30 2007, 01:38 AM, said:

1. Virtually every poster here disagrees with you. Multiple world class players say that 1NT is a bad bid.

2. The opponents have reached the two level, vulnerable, in a no-fit auction, facing a bad trump break. Your partner (who probably on has 1-2 Spades) couldn't find any kind of descriptive bid. And you, somehow, think that

(A ) You're badly positioned
(B ) You would have been better off bidding 1NT

1. I'm surprised to see you arguing like this. Why should I care for what others say if I know where I stand? Did Galileu cared for what others told him when he invented his heliocentric theory? Of course not. He knew very well what he was doing, and so do I.

2. Whether or not I'm badly positioned is debatable, but one think I'm certain of: I'd be much more relaxed if I had bid 1NT before. As it is, a club fit might be there and we're missing it. By the way, I don't think the spade break is bad. RHO might easily run the suit for 5-6 tricks.

In case you're wondering how to unearth the club fit, I can say this: what was

1♥ (1♠) pass (2♦)

might turn out to be

1♥ (1♠) 1NT (pass)
2♣

or

1♥ (1♠) 1NT (2♦)
3♣

or, if you play good-bad,

1♥ (1♠) 1NT (2♦)
2NT*

*: competitive with clubs or 6 hearts

[hrothgar]

whereagles, on Oct 30 2007, 08:02 PM, said:

1. I'm surprised to see you arguing like this. Why should I care for what others say if I know where I stand? Did Galileu cared for what others told him when he invented his heliocentric theory? Of course not. He knew very well what he was doing, and so do I.

Maybe so, but for every Galileo there's 100 braying idiots eating their own feces in the lunatic bin, equally convinced of that they've discovered some deep new truth.

I went to school with a lot of geniuses. I've known a lot of geniuses. Many geniuses are friends of mine. Whereagles, you're no genius...

Hell, many would argue that you're somewhere off on the other end of the bell curve.

[whereagles]

hrothgar, on Oct 30 2007, 05:16 PM, said:

1. Maybe so, but for every Galileo there's 100 braying idiots eating their own feces in the lunatic bin, equally convinced of that they've discovered some deep new truth.

2. I went to school with a lot of geniuses.  I've known a lot of geniuses.  Many geniuses are friends of mine. Whereagles, you're no genius... Hell, many would argue that you're somewhere off on the other end of the bell curve.

1. I can see you're no genious either because you missed the point completely. I wouldn't dream comparing myself to Galileo. But there's one thing I know: I will never be as good as Galileo if I don't have the same attitude as he had, which is to be critical of what others think, regardless who they are, and to stand up for what I believe and think it's right. Heck dude, you're american. This should be second nature to you. Why is it so hard for you to understand?

2. Off the other end of the bell curve, huh...? Do they give PhDs in physics to people like that?

Frankly, Richard. You disappoint me. You can do much better than driving this conversation to the level of personal insult.

[gwnn]

I think the concept of "I'll double if I'm short in opps' suit every time I have 6+ hcp and bid NT if I am long in opps' suit every time I have 6+hcp" is equivalent to "I can't pass... I have 6+hcp! I can't possibly pass, can I?"