[gwnn]

JTx
Jxx
AJ8xx
xx

Pd opens 3rd in hand love all IMPS with 1NT promising 12-15.

Would you bid 2♦, as natural s/o? Would you bid differently in MP or other vulnerabilities?

[helene_t]

I would pass, especially at this vul it's nice not to help opps into the bidding. At other vuls I would be unsure but would probably pass as well.

[bid_em_up]

gwnn, on Oct 10 2007, 01:19 PM, said:

JTx
Jxx
AJ8xx
xx

Pd opens 3rd in hand love all IMPS with 1NT promising 12-15.

Would you bid 2♦, as natural s/o? Would you bid differently in MP or other vulnerabilities?

As a very infrequent player of weak NT's, I see no reason to run until you get doubled and it gets left in.

And it seems to me that by running immediately (bidding 2D) clues the opponents in that your hand is weak with long diamonds making it easier for them to enter the auction, not harder. I also think that bidding 2D now, somewhat defeats the purpose of the weak NT.

If you pass, they may well pass. LHO's already a passed hand and his partner could take no action in the direct seat. Passing puts a lot more pressure on LHO than bidding 2D does.

I would not object to bidding 2D at unfavorable though.

jmoo.

[pclayton]

Auto pass.

We have a nice trick source and a balanced hand. Bidding 2D makes it a lot easier for the opponents to compete.

[ArtK78]

In the original presentation of K/S, Kaplan argued that a hand like this one should bid 3♦ to play. This would have the effect of preempting the opponents out of the auction at little cost. And Kaplan was advocating this approach at IMPs.

In fact, Kaplan argued that one of the reasons that the Italian Blue Team had so much success (and, consequently, the American Teams so little success) was that the Italian bidding methods made it difficult for the Americans to compete on hands such as these, and that the Americans were not making life difficult for the Italians.

Whether it is necessary to preempt when LHO is a passed hand is subject to debate.

[vang]

2D, i want to write with plus. i think 2D will make more often than 1NT (simulation please ;-).

at MP it's probably okay to risk 1NT.

i don't care it may be easier for opps to bid now, they both passed already, right?

[mikeh]

I pass.

There is no real reason to preempt the opps... if partner is 4324 or 3424, for example, our best results may be defending a partscore (altho I will bid 2♦ if they get to 2♣) or 1N. 2♦ might be the worst spot for our side.

We have half the high card, both opps have passed, so why get involved? I don't think this was the hand-type that Kaplan really had in mind when attributing the Blue Team success to american bidding... I didn't read his book, but I've read and reread everything he ever wrote in the Bridge World, especially the tournament reports. The Blue Team basically outbid the Americans in the game and slam zone, from what I can recall....in the era of the dominance of the Blue Team, American players disdained the use of science in bidding... a problem not addressed until Ira Corn put the Aces together.

[ArtK78]

mikeh, on Oct 10 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

I don't think this was the hand-type that Kaplan really had in mind when attributing the Blue Team success to american bidding... I didn't read his book, but I've read and reread everything he ever wrote in the Bridge World, especially the tournament reports.

This is EXACTLY the type of hand that Kaplan had in mind. You can find it in the preface to his original book on K/S.

[P_Marlowe]

sure, thats why I play 2D as natural sign off.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[cherdano]

ArtK78, on Oct 10 2007, 02:55 PM, said:

mikeh, on Oct 10 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

I don't think this was the hand-type that Kaplan really had in mind when attributing the Blue Team success to american bidding... I didn't read his book, but I've read and reread everything he ever wrote in the Bridge World, especially the tournament reports.

This is EXACTLY the type of hand that Kaplan had in mind. You can find it in the preface to his original book on K/S.

I haven't read the book. Do you mind giving the exact hand you are referring to that is supposedly exactly the same as this one?

[ArtK78]

Unfortunately, most of my bridge library is not readily available to me, as it is in storage. I will have to find it and get back to you on this one.

If anyone has access to the original version of Kaplan's book on K/S, please check the preface and find the hand that I am referring to.

Thanks.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

I have the 1958(1962 reprint) version of How to Play Winning Bridge

A KS book by Kaplan and Sheinwold.

Page 91 he bids 2D with a 4HCP 3352 hand and says that you need to get out of NT

Jumps to 3m show six card suits according to his example hands.

I do remember(page 92) that he jumps to 4S with AKQxx x xx Qxxxx
opposite a 1NT opening.

Regards,
Robert

[Fluffy]

I would not do it at MP since the field won't be there and I am already playing 1NT on the right hand.

But at IMPs there is no friking doubt, everyone should know that 5-2 plays better than NT.

[Free]

I'd pass, and I'm not so sure everyone would bid 2♥ if the suits were reversed...

[ArtK78]

Robert, on Oct 10 2007, 05:06 PM, said:

Hi everyone

I have the 1958(1962 reprint) version of How to Play Winning Bridge

A KS book by Kaplan and Sheinwold.

Page 91 he bids 2D with a 4HCP 3352 hand and says that you need to get out of NT

Jumps to 3m show six card suits according to his example hands.

I do remember(page 92) that he jumps to 4S with AKQxx x xx Qxxxx
opposite a 1NT opening.

Regards,
Robert

Robert:

Check the preface by Kaplan. Perhaps your edition does not have it.

It is not in the main text of the book.

[neilkaz]

pclayton, on Oct 10 2007, 02:05 PM, said:

Auto pass.

We have a nice trick source and a balanced hand. Bidding 2D makes it a lot easier for the opponents to compete.

Agree 100% with Phil here.

[MickyB]

Jlall, on Oct 10 2007, 11:33 PM, said:

Wouldn't everyone bid 2H if the hearts and diamonds were reversed? Why is this so different? I would just bid 2D, it rates to be better than 1N.

Does defending 2M rate to be better than declaring 1NT?

Weak take-outs make it easier for the opps to compete than transfers do, basically both oppo are in protective position.