[ralph23]

NS are vul, EW are nonvul
West is dealer

2♠ (weak) by West
North overcalls 3♣
3♠ by East
South now bids 3NT

Part A. After two passes by West and North, East now bids 4♠.
THen, South passes.

1. Is South's pass forcing ?

West also passes and now, North doubles.

2. What should South have to pull North's double? What kind of hand would South have in this instance ?


Part B. Defying partnership logic, after South's 3NT bid, West immediately bids 4♠.

3. North passes as does East. Is North's pass forcing ?

4. North doubles the 4♠ bid of West. What should South have to pull the double ?

[helene_t]

2♠-3♣-p-3N
p-p-4♠-p*
p-x-p-?

Pass is forcing as we bid game to make. It shows either
1) a hand that will respects p's decision to dbl or to bid on
2) a slamish hand, stronger than a direct action.

2♠-3♣-p-3N
4♠-x*-p-?
Pass would have been forcing. This is a 100% penalty double. South cannot pull it (unless maybe if his 3N was a misclick, or if one of the opps shows him his cards).

[jtfanclub]

Ah, but the actual auction was:

2♠-3♣-3♠-3NT
P---P---4♠-Pass

which I think is a tougher call.

[pclayton]

ralph23, on Jul 11 2007, 10:43 AM, said:

NS are vul, EW are nonvul
West is dealer

2♠ (weak) by West
North overcalls 3♣
3♠ by East
South now bids 3NT

Part A. After two passes by West and North, East now bids 4♠.
THen, South passes.

1. Is South's pass forcing ?

West also passes and now, North doubles.

2. What should South have to pull North's double? What kind of hand would South have in this instance ?


Part B. Defying partnership logic, after South's 3NT bid, West immediately bids 4♠.

3. North passes as does East. Is North's pass forcing ?

4. North doubles the 4♠ bid of West. What should South have to pull the double ?

1. Not to me. I've bid 3N on a club fit and a single spade stop and nothing else. Why should we be forced to double 4♠ or bid 5♣?

2. A heckuva lot of shape that makes defending 4♠ unappealing and playing 5♣ attractive. Of course if North thinks South pass is forcing, then this becomes convuluted, since North might be doubling on a minimum hand with bad ODR, whereas if he didn't read South's pass as forcing, North would just pass.

3. No, but its closer to being a FP, since the preempter is raising himself, and ownership of the deal if more likely NS's. North might have overcalled on a minimum hand with a 7th club, so ownership isn't guaranteed.

4. I think the same criteria as #2 applies.

[pclayton]

helene_t, on Jul 11 2007, 11:02 AM, said:

2♠-3♣-p-3N
p-p-4♠-p*
p-x-p-?

Pass is forcing as we bid game to make. It shows either
1) a hand that will respects p's decision to dbl or to bid on
2) a slamish hand, stronger than a direct action.

2♠-3♣-p-3N
4♠-x*-p-?
Pass would have been forcing. This is a 100% penalty double. South cannot pull it (unless maybe if his 3N was a misclick, or if one of the opps shows him his cards).

Quote

Pass is forcing as we bid game to make. It shows either
1) a hand that will respects p's decision to dbl or to bid on
2) a slamish hand, stronger than a direct action.

#2 is impossible. Both North and South have settled on 3N. How can either be slammish, unless they rechecked and found an Ace?

As a result, #1 is illogical. Here, double just means "I can beat 4♠, but if you have something special, try 5♣". Pass just means, "I can't bid 5♣ and I'm not good enough to hit 4♠. If you want to try either (including 4N), go ahead".

[P_Marlowe]

A
#1 yes, ... I can understand, if you said no,
but it simplifies life
#2 There is no such hand, pass and pull
would show additional strength

B
#3 Yes, there ae hands out there, which justify
West bidding, they are rare, but they exist
#4 At most one stopper, Ax comes to mind

With kind regards
Marlowe