[mike777]

When a partscore has been doubled for penalty any general thoughts on when one should try for a tapping defense vs leading a trump?

Had this one last night.

P=(1H)=2C=P
P=(2D)=P=(3D)
X=XX=P=P
P

A97....6543....7.....AQT95

[han]

I would not bid 2C with this.

Partner has made a penalty double and did not support me nor bid spades. In what suit could we ever tap them?

Their hearts look really bad for us. We'd better get our tricks soon.\

I'm leading the ace of clubs.

[Rebound]

It seems to me like we need to prevent heart ruffs in dummy. I'm leading a trump. If partner has a heart entry before dummy runs out he will get the opportunity to lead them again. I think it's gonna be bad for us if declarer gets to lead hearts toward dummy and partner is forced to ruff high or pitch. This assumes partner holds 2 or 3 and dummy 2 or 1. But I've been known to be totally wrong about this sort of thing.

[Codo]

Like Han I had never been in this situation, but oka, it was the waiter who tabled 2 ♣ and left.
I lead the Ace of clubs and hope that pd can deliver 3 tricks. Unlikely, but I have to go for that.

[Apollo81]

Rebound, on May 10 2007, 01:07 AM, said:

It seems to me like we need to prevent heart ruffs in dummy.

....because declarer can't beat your hearts unless he trumps them......

[Apollo81]

♣A sounds good. Hoping to find partner with a singleton club and two other tricks.

When partner surprises you by doubling (and I am surprised here since he couldn't move over 2♣ and the opps voluntarily bid 3♦) he usually has a singleton in your suit.

[FrancesHinden]

You look at your hand, and listen to the auction, and sometimes you do the wrong thing.

The 'general rule' is that you lead trumps when you have the majority of the high card values and every suit sewn up, so that declarer's only real source of tricks is trumps. You force declarer when he has a side suit he wants to set up, and you want to prevent him making use of it.

In this case, your hearts are so bad that it's unlikely declarer needs to ruff many hearts in dummy, and dummy is known to have at least four trumps. Leading a club looks more tempting, particularly as declarer is extremely unlikely to have the King. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if a low spade were the winning lead (that's likely to be partner's suit) but I can't quite bring myself to do it.

There are plenty of declarer play problems around where declarer makes the contract by threatening either to set his side suit up, or to make his trumps separately. There are plenty of defensive problems around where the defence need to underlead the ace of trumps (sometimes the AK of trumps) to retain their option either to force declarer or to draw trumps: these hands can be extremely complicated.

[mike777]

FrancesHinden, on May 10 2007, 09:34 AM, said:

You look at your hand, and listen to the auction, and sometimes you do the wrong thing.

The 'general rule' is that you lead trumps when you have the majority of the high card values and every suit sewn up, so that declarer's only real source of tricks is trumps. You force declarer when he has a side suit he wants to set up, and you want to prevent him making use of it.

In this case, your hearts are so bad that it's unlikely declarer needs to ruff many hearts in dummy, and dummy is known to have at least four trumps.  Leading a club looks more tempting, particularly as declarer is extremely unlikely to have the King.  To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if a low spade were the winning lead (that's likely to be partner's suit) but I can't quite bring myself to do it.

There are plenty of declarer play problems around where declarer makes the contract by threatening either to set his side suit up, or to make his trumps separately. There are plenty of defensive problems around where the defence need to underlead the ace of trumps (sometimes the AK of trumps) to retain their option either to force declarer or to draw trumps: these hands can be extremely complicated.

"When a partscore has been doubled for penalty any general thoughts on when one should try for a tapping defense vs leading a trump?"

Thanks Frances for answering my question. I did not care too much about this hand and what was right but what my thought process should be when leading against partscores that partner has doubled and I have short trumps. Thanks again for your thoughtful answer.

Just posted the hand as an example from the other night of what I may be on lead with.

Actually I held the other hand and made the x, this was partner's hand and overcall.

[skjaeran]

As others' I disagree with the overcall.
Having said that, I believe it turned out well.
I'll lead the ♣A. Partner's I'm playing with will hold a singleton ♣ for this double.

[Rebound]

Apollo81, on May 10 2007, 10:16 AM, said:

Rebound, on May 10 2007, 01:07 AM, said:

It seems to me like we need to prevent heart ruffs in dummy.

....because declarer can't beat your hearts unless he trumps them......

It's not my hearts I am concerned about. Dummy has denied hearts; that leaves any heart values declarer is missing in my partner's hand. As I said originally, ♥ may be 5-4-2-2 or 5-4-3-1. If the double is based, in part, on good heart values sitting over declarer, it may be important to remove the possibility of ruffs in dummy or promotion of dummy's trumps sitting over a doubling partner.

Perhaps your partners are too good to double just because they hold both suits bid by declarer. Most of mine have done, and will continue to do so.

[mike777]

Rebound, on May 11 2007, 12:44 AM, said:

Apollo81, on May 10 2007, 10:16 AM, said:

Rebound, on May 10 2007, 01:07 AM, said:

It seems to me like we need to prevent heart ruffs in dummy.

....because declarer can't beat your hearts unless he trumps them......

It's not my hearts I am concerned about. Dummy has denied hearts; that leaves any heart values declarer is missing in my partner's hand. As I said originally, ♥ may be 5-4-2-2 or 5-4-3-1. If the double is based, in part, on good heart values sitting over declarer, it may be important to remove the possibility of ruffs in dummy or promotion of dummy's trumps sitting over a doubling partner.

Perhaps your partners are too good to double just because they hold both suits bid by declarer. Most of mine have done, and will continue to do so.

the hearts and diamonds are sitting under declarer...not over...

Add to that declarer has xx at imps.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Ace of clubs, partner has at
most 2 clubs.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Would I hav emade the 2C
overcall? I am not sure, I have
done it, and I will do it again, but
not always.

[Rebound]

Ah. Oops. Anybody got a spare brain I can borrow? Please don't ask what ever made me think I could be on lead and also sitting behind declarer. Sorry for wasting your time.

Clearly, they were, at best, irrelevant.