[FrancesHinden]

Every time I raise on this type on hand on this type of auction slam goes off. I think I've finally learnt to pass.

The last time I managed to pass, and slam looked good, but went off on a ruff in the side suit.

[mikeh]

pclayton, on May 8 2007, 12:41 PM, said:

Quote

I'll say it till I'm blue in the face but time has shown when you have a guess in these situations to go low. Sometimes slam will be making but more often when you have a good hand it's because partner stretched under pressure.

Quote

There is little worse feeling for partner than to make an aggressive, but thoughtful, bid under pressure and have partner bid one too many. Stay fixed.. if slam is good... too bad.

I think Josh and Mike and being a bit glib about this matter. If this is an important team game, missing a good slam is a big deal; its 11-13 IMPs; the same as missing / misdefending / misplaying a game. Bidding a slam that goes down is the same swing.

I think it would have been glib to have posted: 'wtp, stay fixed', but that's not what I said. Clearly this is a problem, and I suggested a quite similar hand (same shape, same hcp) on which I think I might well bid on.

It is close: my experience tells me that bidding is a bad decision more often than not. As for the quality of opps and my own teams, I generally, but not always, play on good teams, altho not the super-elite.... in most, but not all, events in which I play, my team will be one of the stronger in the field... so maybe that has biased me, and maybe, if I were to travel more and play 'up' more, my experience would change.

As for bidding a slam being the same as bidding a game: that is not my view.

It is the same if we are not vulnerable: 50% games and slams are breakeven, but we all know that the imp scale favours low(er) percentage vulnerable games: it does NOT favour lower-percentage vulnerable slams.

Another way to look at it is from partner's perspective: imagine the hand-types with which you would bid 5♥... bearing in mind that, on some layouts, you may be bidding out of fear that 4♠ is making rather than because you expect a typical double to yield an 11 trick contract. x Jxxxxxx Kxx xx: would we all sell to 4♠ white v white on this? Opposite x KQxx Axxx Axxx, they have an easy game and our 5♥ is no more than 300... and there is no reason for the doubler to reopen after 4♠ P P.

Did I miss slam? If so, then it wasn't for the first time and it won't be for the last time. I'm not trying to be glib... I'm just expressing my philosophy on these hand types.

[neilkaz]

I love my hand..and my only question is whether it is good enough to try for a grand with 5♠. Since the opps may have only 9♠ and may often have a loser somewhere else, I lean towards the simple 6♥ considering most probably the opps have 10+ spades.

My only surprise is with those who pass, and it, pardon me is a major suprise. I don't like to hang PD here for stretching to compete to 5♥, but I expect 6♥ to be a large fav. and I plan to whack 6♠ into the next country and once in a while 6♠ may be bid in error by the opps.

6♥ in preference to 5♠, with passing being far too wimpy for me with these controls and ♥ cards.

.. neilkaz ..

[pclayton]

Quote

you may be bidding out of fear that 4♠ is making rather than because you expect a typical double to yield an 11 trick contract. x Jxxxxxx Kxx xx: would we all sell to 4♠ white v white on this? Opposite x KQxx Axxx Axxx, they have an easy game and our 5♥ is no more than 300... and there is no reason for the doubler to reopen after 4♠ P P.

This might explain some of the understanding about what constitutes an appropriate 5♥ call.

(Flashback): GNT-A, Atlanta - 1st day of qualifying. Pard picks up a 7=3=2=1 with KTxxxxx of spades and out (I might have posted this a long time ago, and I might have the hand a little off). He hears (white / white): 3♣ on his left; double by me, 5♣ on his right and he bids 5♠. I am sitting there with 22 of the finest and bid 6. Down 1. Teammates make some silly fit bid with ♠AJxx over the double, so they play 5♣ x'd down a bunch.

(Flashback - more recent): I'm reading a Swiss Teams Match from a Bridge World from 1991 a few months ago: x, Jxx, Jx, JT9xxxx. NV/NV: 3♠ on left, double by pard, 4♠ on right. The recommended action is a pass, followed by a pull of pard's double.

Therefore, I believe strongly that a free 5♥ bid in the given sequence shows a real hand, and not just a string of hearts that wants to sac over 4♠.

[whereagles]

I'm gonna bid 6 here. I'm all for giving pard some slack but here I simply have too much.

[ewj]

Although it's not really the point of the question for those who wanted to know partner's hand, I've been told it was the following

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Obviously he doesn't really have his bid and 5 is down anyway

[mikeh]

pclayton, on May 8 2007, 03:36 PM, said:

Quote

you may be bidding out of fear that 4♠ is making rather than because you expect a typical double to yield an 11 trick contract. x Jxxxxxx Kxx xx: would we all sell to 4♠ white v white on this? Opposite x KQxx Axxx Axxx, they have an easy game and our 5♥ is no more than 300... and there is no reason for the doubler to reopen after 4♠ P P.

This might explain some of the understanding about what constitutes an appropriate 5♥ call.

(Flashback - more recent): I'm reading a Swiss Teams Match from a Bridge World from 1991 a few months ago: x, Jxx, Jx, JT9xxxx. NV/NV: 3♠ on left, double by pard, 4♠ on right. The recommended action is a pass, followed by a pull of pard's double.

Therefore, I believe strongly that a free 5♥ bid in the given sequence shows a real hand, and not just a string of hearts that wants to sac over 4♠.

Must be nice to play that pass of 4♠ is forcing

It is easy to construct hands on which 5♥ is a great save over 4♠, and not too hard to construct (admittedly very shapely weak hands for partner) on which there rates to be a double game swing, and on which one cannot safely reopen with a double.

[whereagles]

pard was on steroids... lol

[Apollo81]

pclayton, on May 8 2007, 04:36 PM, said:

I believe strongly that a free 5♥ bid in the given sequence shows a real hand, and not just a string of hearts that wants to sac over 4♠.

I suspect that most people would bid 5♥ on worse hands than youd expect.

[pclayton]

mikeh, on May 9 2007, 05:42 AM, said:

pclayton, on May 8 2007, 03:36 PM, said:

Quote

you may be bidding out of fear that 4♠ is making rather than because you expect a typical double to yield an 11 trick contract. x Jxxxxxx Kxx xx: would we all sell to 4♠ white v white on this? Opposite x KQxx Axxx Axxx, they have an easy game and our 5♥ is no more than 300... and there is no reason for the doubler to reopen after 4♠ P P.

This might explain some of the understanding about what constitutes an appropriate 5♥ call.

(Flashback - more recent): I'm reading a Swiss Teams Match from a Bridge World from 1991 a few months ago: x, Jxx, Jx, JT9xxxx. NV/NV: 3♠ on left, double by pard, 4♠ on right. The recommended action is a pass, followed by a pull of pard's double.

Therefore, I believe strongly that a free 5♥ bid in the given sequence shows a real hand, and not just a string of hearts that wants to sac over 4♠.

Must be nice to play that pass of 4♠ is forcing

It is easy to construct hands on which 5♥ is a great save over 4♠, and not too hard to construct (admittedly very shapely weak hands for partner) on which there rates to be a double game swing, and on which one cannot safely reopen with a double.

I never said it was forcing, however, one of two things is apparent:

Pard has a mountain. We'll hear about it over 4♠.

Pard has a minimum double or maybe some extras. With the 1st, its an auto pass, with the 2nd its a hew and haw, followed by a pass. With the 1st case, I'd wonder if our opponents missed a slam. With the 2nd, we might have a 300 sac against their game - I can't remember the vulnerability, but thats life.

[pclayton]

ewj, on May 9 2007, 02:10 AM, said:

Although it's not really the point of the question for those who wanted to know partner's hand, I've been told it was the following

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Obviously he doesn't really have his bid and 5 is down anyway

5♥ is sick.