[FrancesHinden]

Scoring: Total Points

1NT P 2C P
2D P 3NT all pass

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1NT was 15-17, 2C normal Stayman

You are WEST. Dummy is NORTH.
You lead your 4th highest club, on which partner plays the 3 (reverse count) and declarer wins with the 10.

Declarer plays the 2 of diamonds to the Jack, which partner wins with the Queen.

Partner plays the 2 of clubs back, declarer plays the King and after due consideration you duck.

Declarer cashes the king of diamonds.

Question 1: What do you discard?
(you may be able to guess questions 2-4...)

This post has been edited by FrancesHinden: 2007-March-27, 06:03

[thebiker]

Too many 2's of diamonds
NT range?

[Walddk]

This is a situation I should never have been in. By the look of it partner has ♣832 and declarer therefore KQ104. It does not make sense to give count with the 3 from that holding. If he had played the 8 to trick 1, I would know what to discard on the diamonds, depending on whether he returns the 3 or the 2.

If he returns the 3, he has a high spade card whereas his high card is in hearts if he returns the deuce. So if the 8 is followed by the 3 I throw my spades, and the 8 followed by the 2 and I will discard my hearts.

Now I'm left guessing, and I don't guess better or worse than anyone else. When he failed to play 8x and chose 32 instead, I'm guessing that he's trying to show me ♥A, so I will hang on to my spades, playing declarer for AKx.

However, I don't have to commit just yet. I can start by pitching a spade, and partner's diamond pip should tell me which major he guards.

Roland

[FrancesHinden]

thebiker, on Mar 27 2007, 11:14 AM, said:

Too many 2's of diamonds
NT range?

Edited original hand accordingly

[Edmunte1]

I fully agree with Roland. Partner should have played his highest club first (4 or 8). Playing 3 then 2 means a strong ♥ signal. I'll try to defend with partner holding ♥A (probably he'll make another signal more obvious on diamonds). I'll consider that partner doesn't hold ♥10, otherwise my 4 discards are easy:

[Edmunte1]

-2♠, ♥Q, ♥J, ♣9
-Now let's consider that parner doesn't have ♥10, fist discard will also be ♠2. Let's consider that declarer has 3♠ (otherwise he would have cashed A-K♠ earlier). His play in ♦ sugests 3 cards (with 4 would have cashed definitely king first), so his shape is 3-3-3-4 and his hand should be

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My second discard will be a club, keeping the position open. Declarer must cash forth diamond, discarding a heart, and:
a ) i'll discard a second club. On the last diamond declarer throws a club and i'm in big trouble
b ) i'll discard a heart honour. On the last diamond declarer throws club and also makes again
c ) i'll discard 3♥, then club, i will be endplayed
So it seems we are squeezed in 3 suits, so the only choice is to hope that partner has ♥10, and discard 2♠, ♥Q, ♥J, ♣9

[FrancesHinden]

I strongly disagree that partner's card at trick one should be suit preference, for loads of reasons. I don't want to go off on a tangent now on this thread with that discussion (and there's no personal axe to grind because on this hand I was dummy) so can we please live with the fact that partner was giving count in clubs. He might well have wanted to preserve the 8 to lead through on the next round to stop declarer ducking a cheap trick.

There is a worthy and long discussion to be had on the correct card to play from various holdings on various leads and various auctions, but it's easy to construct hands where i) count is essential at trick 1 and ii) the 8 was too valuable a card to play. It's possible that none of those hands are consistent with a true 4th highest lead of the 7, but if you expect partner to work all of this out at trick one, then you must be frequently disappointed.

The overall tenor of the hand is much clearer by the time we get to the second & third rounds of diamonds, and I agree partner should be helpful with his pip order.

[Walddk]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 27 2007, 04:01 PM, said:

I strongly disagree that partner's card at trick one should be suit preference

No-one said that his card at trick 1 is suit preference, but his second card is. And here I'd like to distinguish between the 3 and the 2. As it was, the 3 followed by the 2 leaves me in the dark because I know that he has one higher (presumably the 8).

Roland

[cherdano]

Obviously there is more to this hand than finding out which major suit ace partner has...

Edmunte's analysis seems right to me if partner has the ♥A, as is likely from his club plays.

[Walddk]

cherdano, on Mar 27 2007, 05:44 PM, said:

Edmunte's analysis seems right to me if partner has the ♥A, as is likely from his club plays.

I fail to see why. If EW's agreement is to give count with the 3 from 832, you can't read anything into the 2 next. The 8 as a follow-up is out of the question because that would show an even number of clubs.

So if I really *must* give count with 32 from that holding, I shall have to wait until I see partner's second diamond spot.

Roland

[FrancesHinden]

OK, you can certainly discard a spade safely on the second diamond whatever is going on.

Partner plays the lowest outstanding diamond spot.

What do you discard on the next diamond?
Partner will play the next lowest oustanding diamond on the 4th round.

What do you discard on the 4th round of diamonds?

[Walddk]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 27 2007, 06:16 PM, said:

OK, you can certainly discard a spade safely on the second diamond whatever is going on.

Partner plays the lowest outstanding diamond spot.

What do you discard on the next diamond?
Partner will play the next lowest oustanding diamond on the 4th round.

What do you discard on the 4th round of diamonds?

edmunte1 already answered that question. ♥Q, J and ♣9. If declarer has ♥10, we can't beat it, and if I keep a heart honour I will be endplayed (partner can't afford to overtake when declarer plays low from dummy).

Roland

[skjaeran]

Absloutely agree with Roland.
If the agreement is reverse count, you play your highest from three small first.
You follow with the 8 from 832 and the 3 from 83 - easy to distinguish.

Then the card you lead back from 832 is suit preference.

Edmunte's analysis is spot on if partner gives preference for hearts.

[FrancesHinden]

OK, here's something to think about:

Partner has apparently given preference for hearts (in diamonds, certainly, I believe the jury is out on the club suit for reasons I'll come back to much later).

But if partner has the ace of hearts, why didn't he duck the diamond? We are pretty certain that he started with Qxxx diamonds, so by ducking the first round of diamonds he could have kept declarer off dummy for good, knowing he had the HA over the HK.

Can't partner argue that all this 'suit preference' stuff is nonsense, and that if you thought about the layout you would know his defence only makes sense holding the SA?

[FrancesHinden]

skaeran, on Mar 27 2007, 06:09 PM, said:

Absloutely agree with Roland.
If the agreement is reverse count, you play your highest from three small first.
You follow with the 8 from 832 and the 3 from 83 - easy to distinguish.

Then the card you lead back from 832 is suit preference.

This isn't really the point I wanted to make this hand at all, but the discussion about the club suit is turning out quite interesting.

The card you lead back from 832 ought to be the 8, and not suit preference (the defender at the table didn't lead the 8, but I think he should have done).

The layout could be

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On the 2 back, declarer puts in the 4 and the suit is frozen from both sides.
Only the 8 back, declarer is in much more trouble. He has to choose whether to put the ace up (protecting him from attack on the left) or duck (protecting from attack on the right). So I think holding 832 the best he can do is give count with the 3 on the first round, and then the 8 on the second round is meaningless as far as suit preference is concerned.

So I think all we know from partner's 2 back is that partner has misdefended. Draw what conclusion you like about that for the rest of the discussion on the defence to this hand!

[FrancesHinden]

Ho hum, nobody cares about such subtle inferences.

You are all right, anyway: partner has the Ace of hearts and the two ways of beating the contract are
i) Take the second club and cash 3 heart tricks
ii) Discard the QJ of hearts.

At the table, West hung on to the HQ and was endplayed with it when my partner read the end position accurately.