[Hanoi5]

Lately minibridge has been used as a way of introducing kids to the full game of bridge. However, I've seen how minibridge is in itself a game and I was wondering, how are kids or people who learn minibridge going to pass from one game to the other? Why isn't bridge taught instead of minibridge? Will it be possible that minibridge takes over the role of bridge as THE game?

And also, on the same line of ideas, is rubber bridge still played? Is the number of bridge players increasing or decreasing?

Thanks for your thoughts on these topics.

[hrothgar]

I strongly advocate using mini-bridge to introduce new players to the bridge.

Bridge has a very steep learning curve. You have one entire "game" that revolves arround the play of the cards. Declarer play and defense are very challenging, especially for people who have little or no experience with trick based games like Hearts, Spades, or Pinocle. Bridge also requires that players memorize a complex new language that gets used during the bidding "game". Life gets even more complicated when you consider that there are all sorts of subtle interactions between the bidding game and the card play game. If you don't appreciate how many playing tricks two hands are likely to produce your never going to be an accurate bidder. If you don't learn how to bid, you're never going to get a chance to compete for a reasonable contract.

Mini-bridge provides a mechanism by which new players can be exploring the game and play cards in 15 minutes. True, they won't be playing "bridge", but at least their playing cards. And if it turns out that they like playing cards, you can then find out whether or not they enjoy the whole "bidding game". If they do, you have a new bridge player. If they don't you haven't wasted much time.

I certainly don't see mini-bridge as a threat. It feeds into the system...

[Gerben42]

I think that minibridge is very suitable to bring

a. Very young people to bridge (age 10 - 12)
b. Reasonably old people to bridge (age 60+)

Those inbetween usually prefer the steep learning curve if they already have experience with card games.

[hotShot]

We live in a time where everything has to be very fast.People are not interested in something that will take them years to learn, the want to have it in a few day's.
Of cause you know all those books: with titles like "Learn XXXX in YYY days".

So if you want people to enter the bridge scene, you need to give than an teaser that is fast to learn. Once they are interested, they might want more.

So minibridge is something every beginner should start to play at the end of the first bridge lesson. They should learn playing techniques than, and very soon they will start to complain, that the simple rules to define the contract in minibridge are not good enough. They are ready to learn bidding system than.

Starting to teach bridge beginning with weeks of bidding theory is the best method to drive people away from bridge forever.

So bridge will benefit a lot from minibridge.

[blackshoe]

60 is not old!

I have taught bridge to beginners. I find Ron Klinger's "Whist to bridge" idea very helpful in getting them started. Once they're hooked will be soon enough to start introducing theory. Or maybe not. The "corporate wisdom" of most of the teachers I know is that the idea of teaching theory to beginners at all is radical and doomed to failure, and in fact I haven't had the guts to try it yet. I do think that any teaching session after "whist to bridge" ought to have both bidding and play problems, and not be limited to one or the other.

[Gerben42]

Quote

60 is not old!

No of course not, but reasonably old. I am just referring to the well-established fact that learning at 60 is not as easy at it is at 20 and requires different methods. It also is the age at which many people learn bridge because they finally have time.

Quote

Starting to teach bridge beginning with weeks of bidding theory is the best method to drive people away from bridge forever.

This is true for any group of beginners! It's just the bridge society that dictates that you should know a bidding system to be able to play bridge. This sells books, keeps the teachers busy, etc. but bridge CAN be played without learning a bidding system.

If you want proof of this, try to play bridge with a different deck, for example with 4 jokers that can be played at any time as the highest card in the led suit, joker #2 beating a previous one in a trick. All your nice bidding system in the trashcan, yet you can still play.

So what do you do? Try to teach your students the LOGIC behind the system, not the system. That 2/1 must be quite strong since otherwise you end up too high, and that you don't pass on 15 HCP because you miss too many good contracts.

Quote

So minibridge is something every beginner should start to play at the end of the first bridge lesson.

Agree with this. But please not too long after that, maybe one more lesson.

[Gerben42]

To answer the original question: No I don't think in the future minibridge will be popular than bridge. No way. I would be more worried about losing the younger generation to poker.

[blackshoe]

"Learning at 60 is harder than at 20" is a generalization, not an established fact. The fact is that learning at 60 is harder than at 20 for some people, perhaps even for many. But not necessarily for everybody.

I would be more worried about losing the younger generation to video games.

[Gerben42]

[rant]
Come on you know what I mean, try to add to the discussion instead of trying to pin me down on exact words. I am not a lawyer, nor would I be a good one and I do not want to be one.
[/rant]

[xx1943]

1) Minibridge seems a good idea to learn bridge (compare Hrothgar's arguments). I never tried to teach it to newcomers, so I cannot tell from own experience.
2) Most beginners and intermediates are fascinated from the bidding "game". Guess, because it is easier to outbid (by chance) opponents than to outplay them.
So I'm not afraid, that minibridge will substitute bridge some day.
In contrary I made the experience, that they found it boring, when I offered my students in the BIL to learn more about playing the cards with minibridge. We tried it once and there was no interest to repeat.

Al

[hotShot]

Once beginner started bidding, they want to do it. So I use minibridge for the first lessons, so they have some hands on experience. Often they discover basic techniques like finesse by themselves.
1. lesson
How to play minibridge followed by hands on experience
2. lesson
Basic card play (handling suits, impass, expass, ruffing finesse,..)
and play minibridge
3. lesson
defense (leads, simple signals)
and play minibridge
4. lesson
count (usually they have found out by than, that counting is a great help in play and defence)
and play minibridge

The following lessons depends on the speed they improve declarer play and basic defense. The time to start talking about the bidding is when they start to complain that the minibridge contract is not good enough, because they want the game bonus.

Once they started bidding, they usually don't want to go back to minibridge.

[xx1943]

hotShot, on Feb 19 2007, 10:29 AM, said:

Once beginner started bidding, they want to do it.

....

Once they started bidding, they usually don't want to go back to minibridge.

That's it.