[jillybean]

Hi, here is a hand with my r/l partner where the bidding didn’t go so well, we need some impartial feedback please.

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     Pass  Pass
 Pass  1♣    Pass  1♦
 1♥    1♠    Pass  2♣
 Pass  3♠    Pass  4♣
 Pass  5♣    Dbl   Pass
 Pass  Pass  

[HeartA]

The biddings up to 2C are fine. South's 2C was a very weak bid and sign-off. I agree that North could bid again over South's 2C, but I would bid 2S only. Also, North should pass over South's 4C. South had been trying to tell North of a weak hand with some C fit via 2C and 4C. If I "assign the blame", I would give it to North of 100%, 50% on 3S and 50% on 5C.

[helene_t]

The 1♣ opening is unusual, modern textbooks recomend 1♠.

1♦ ok if not playing walsh.

1♠ ok. 2♣ is fine if 1♠ showed an unbalanced hand (dbl would have been balanced with 4 spades) or if playing 4-card majors (the 1♣ opening suggests NS are playing Acol).

3♠ is not good. 2♠ is enough.

4♣ is presumably meant as to play and I think that makes sense. After all, North denied GF values by not jumping to 2♠ in the second round.

5♣ is not good, North has already bid too much and should pass.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1) the opening bid is an style issue, I would open 1S
2) I dont like the 2C from South, you have a 6 card suit,
as rotten as it maybe, it is a 6 card suit
As far as I can tell, the opening suit, could still be a 3
card suit and North should pass 2D
Treating the opening suit as a 4 carder is fine, but only
if you dont have an alternative, and a 6 card suit is an
alternative

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pbleighton]

3S is the culprit. 2C has limited South's hand (I might bid 2D here, but 2C is fine), and 3S must be forcing. 4C is just a preference, but now North has a really tough call, his own fault.

If the bid is 2S instead of 3S, you can stop in 4 (or 3 on a chicken day).

Peter

[the hog]

I agree with Helene. Kathryn, some posters will no doubt say that 1C is correct with this hand. I much prefer 1S. The worst bid in your auction, though is 3S. 2 is sufficient. Incidentally , my partnership would play this hand in 1S.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

Most systems and writers suggest opening this hand 1S. Some very good 'other' writers suggest bidding 1C so the opening bid is a matter of style.

That 2C bid 'suggested' a fairly modest hand(less than 10) so a 2S bid would be 'showing a 5th spade plus 'extra values.' The auction should now go 3C showing a 'minimum' hand and you could now pass 'or' invite with 4C which would now be passed.

Regards,
Robert

[Winstonm]

The 1C opening on 5/5 blacks is the old fashioned way to bid this hand - goes back to the fifties or earlier.

Modern practice emphasizes finding major fits before minor fits along with 5-card majors so most now open these hands 1S.

There is good reason for this switch - the one club opening makes the hand subject to considerable problems when preempted. When the auction starts:
1C-3H-P-P-? or 1C-P-1D-3H there is no rebid problem, per se, but there is great danger in introducing the spade suit at such a high level unless the hand is very powerful. If, on the other hand, the hand had been opened 1S, finding a spade fit is automatic - but it is true that you can be preempted from a club fit. But bridge pays off for finding 9-trick and 10-trick games, not so much the more rare 11-trick games; hence, the emphasis on majors over minors which has extended in the modern game all the way to these 5/5 black suit hands.

As others have stated, the main problem with the given auction was the 3S bid when 2S was adequate.

[inquiry]

Ok, here is the answer.

IF north opens 1♠ "he" gets to play 2♣, via 1♠-1NT-2♣ all pass.

Does that mean 1♠ is the correct opening bid? Absolutely not. .It means 1♠ is an acceptible opening bid. Another acceptible opening bid is 1♣, planning on rebidding spades twice. There is a risk this sounds like 6♣-5♠, but it allows you show your suits at a low level. I am not particularily fond of the 1♦ response over 1♣, but if you don't play Walsh 1♦ is correct. Here is the possible auctions playing Walsh and no Walsh. In both of these auctions, 2♠ shows 5♠ and is game try despite the 2♣ signoff... this allows you to stop in 3♣ in both cases.

WALSH
1♣ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♣
2♠ - 3♣
Pass

NON-WALSH
1♣ - 1♦
1♠ - 2♣
2♠ - 3♣
Pass

[Winstonm]

Geez, Ben, are the forums getting too dull these days? I know of no better way to stir up an argument than to say,

Quote

"Ok, here is the answer." 

(emphasis added)

[neilkaz]

What Ben says is spot on, although there's some question as to whether to rebid 2♦ if not playing Walsh+XYZ rather than 2♣ which could be a 4-3 or possibly 3-3 fit if opener's 1♠ rebid doesn't promise an unbalanced hand over the 1♥ overcall (noting that pass, double, and NT, as well as 2♥ are calls that should be discussed with your PD).

Anyhow, with only 5 HCP and a void in opener's 2nd suit, South is hoping the 2♣ ends the auction. Regardless of which minor South rebids, North has lots of extras and is correct to take one more shot at game and show her 5th ♠. But 2♠ is the way to do this, and 3♠ is simply heading down the road to disaster.

Once again South took a weakish preference after 3♠ and bid 4♣. This has to really show a min hand and no game interest since a possible 3NT was bypassed and the 3♠ jump rebid shows a real good hand.

North again stated that she didn't care how weak South was and bid 5♣.

Blame 100% to North for ignoring even a 2nd weak preference bid.

[jillybean]

Winstonm, on Nov 25 2006, 09:10 AM, said:

Geez, Ben, are the forums getting too dull these days?  I know of no better way to stir up an argument than to say,

Quote

"Ok, here is the answer." 

(emphasis added)

Its all taken with a grain of salt, albeit some with more salt than others.

I was North, and here’s the seriously flawed thinking behind the bidding..

When I counted 16 points, 1525 I thought great I can reverse, I’ll bid ♠ twice to show 5 (Im hooked on reverses) after opening 1♣ I realized I couldn’t reverse, 2♠ is a strong jump here… and the rest is too painful to retell.


jb

[1eyedjack]

jillybean2, on Nov 25 2006, 05:49 PM, said:

When I counted 16 points, 1525 I thought great I can reverse, I’ll bid ♠ twice to show 5 (Im hooked on reverses) after opening 1♣ I realized I couldn’t reverse, 2♠ is a strong jump here… and the rest is too painful to retell.


jb

Almost right thinking, in my view.

Yes, you have a strong opening hand.
No, you do not have a hand suitable to jump to 2S on your first rebid (after opening 1C).
But the point that you might have missed, is that to bid 1S then 2S does show extra values as well as extra shape, after partner has attempted to sign out with a weak limited preference to 2C. With a weak opening hand and 5-5 shape then (again assuming that you opened 1C rather than 1S) you would pass 2C and not show the 5th Spade at all.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

Jillybeans2 are you aware that bidding a new suit at the three level 'without a jump'
is a 'high reverse?' You are forcing to game(some play 4 of an agreed minor may be passed)

If you open 1S and partner bids 2 of a red suit, your 3C would be a game forcing 'high reverse.'

Regards,
Robert

[kenrexford]

I've been reading Adventures in Card Play as I fall asleep recently...

But, I give up. How does 5♣ make?

LOLOL

[jillybean]

kenrexford, on Nov 25 2006, 10:17 PM, said:

But, I give up. How does 5♣ make?

Not very well, if it had I would be thinking the auction was just fine

[pclayton]

I thought I was the last holdout of the 1♣ with 5-5.

As I got tired of getting my spade suit buried, or had to look like I was making a 'reverse' to get my spades in, I started opening the hand 1♠.

[keylime]

In standard I open 1♣ because I'm putting her into reverse next bid. Opening 1♠ now put pard to a bad guess once you jump rebid 3♣.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

I never had any idea about making a game forcing 3C strong jump shift with this hand.

Opening 1S and rebid 2C over a 1NT reply appears quite normal to me.

If partner bids 2 of a red suit, I make a 'high' reverse to 3C.

I normally play a Big Club system so my 'non' 1C bids are limited. I learned bridge bidding many years ago and standard methods are not really all that bad 'if' you use them properly.

Regards,
Robert

[neilkaz]

I also open this hand 1♠ playing 2/1 (my usual sys) or SAYC (or what ever 5 card major sys my pickup may think he/she plays) and I have no trouble showing what I have.

In SAYC I'd expect the bidding to go 1♠-1NT-2♣ and then since we aren't playing 1NT forcing in SAYC PD knows I have at least 4♣'s and can either pass or bid 2♦ hoping to improve the contract but also giving opener another chance to bid. (with 5 HCP I'd pass 2♣ if not playing 1NTF) Anyhow after 2♦ opener rebids 3♣ showing 5-5 in Blacks and non GF and responder passes and all is well.

Playing 2/1 we play 1NT forcing which means that the 2♣ rebid may be made on a 3 card suit in a balanced hand. With 6♦'s as responder I wouldn't pass a potential 3-3 fit so I bid 2♦ and then opener rebids 3♣ and I can safely pass with great expectations of a 5-3 fit.

Playing Gazzilli (I am studying it, but would like to find more info) Opener is 5-5 in the Blacks with 14-16 HCP and over 1NT (since the Gazzilli 2♣ rebid is forcing and can later show very strong hand types) jump rebids 3♣ showing 5-5 with 14-16 HCP and responder with 5 HCP can see that game is extremely unlikely and pass.

SAYC shouldn't get into any trouble with this hand, nor should 2/1. Incidently, if playing SAYC responders 2/1 responce in a red suit really is supposed to have 10 HCP (many stretch with a real good 9) so I can force game with a high reverse to 3♣ and we can hopefully figure out which game is best with our 26+ HCP.

.. neilkaz ..