[Apollo81]

♠x
♥KQJxxx
♦AQxx
♣Kx

unfavorable, IMPs, against good players

(3♠)-4♥-(4♠)-Dbl-
(pass)-?

Agreement is "responsive thru 4♥"

[Blofeld]

The agreement makes the double penalties, so I pass ...

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Pass, I have a hand partner can
expect for a vul. 4H bid.

I will take the money.
I am not sure, what the agreement
about resp. dbl. has to do with the
problem.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikeh]

Pass.

Thinking is an overbid.

You have a minimum 4♥ overcall... certainly there is NOTHING about your hand that should be a surprise to partner, and he has said that he wants to defend. There is no rational basis, in partnership bridge, to overrule him.

Yes, it is entirely possible that you have a home in the ♦ suit... perhaps even a slam.. but you cannot pull the double to 5♦... that call would describe a different hand than the one at which you are looking.

Masterminders bid here, bridge players wonder about the lead: a trump or the ♥K?

Put another way, if S doubled slowly, and North pulled, the committee should roll the contract back, unless the pull generated a worse result.

[FrancesHinden]

The agreement is that double is penalties, therefore why should I do anything except pass?

As it happens, my agreement is that double is 'convertible values' (take-out, if you like) and even then I consider it a marginal decision whether to pass or bid on.

[whereagles]

Even if pard has a take out double, there's a case for passing

[awm]

Well there's some question as to the meaning of double. If it's a true "penalty double" then it's fairly clear to sit. But I don't think many of us play double this way.

The sensible meaning of double in this auction is "I have a good hand and not a real fit for hearts" which is basically "cards." I'd tend to pass this double with some spade length (say two or three small) but with a singleton it's usually right to bid. The opponents seem to have ten spades, we should have a fit somewhere. Double would be partner's normal call with 22(45), 2155, or even 1255 shape, especially if 4nt would not be "pick a minor." It seems all too likely that we have a slam; all partner needs is not to have too much in spades, and even if partner has spade wastage we can normally make 5♦ or 5♥ (quite possibly worth more than defending 4♠X in the opponents ten card fit when we are unfavorable).

I'd bid 5♦.

[HeartA]

awm, on Sep 11 2006, 05:35 PM, said:

I'd bid 5♦.

Me, too.

[arrows]

For me, double means "useful" values.
This hand is a little bit soft for another bid, but it also has no wasted value.

The number of total tricks is roughly 19, looks promising for a 5 level contract.
I 'd bid 5D if partner knows heart is the anchor suit in this case.

[zasanya]

HeartA, on Sep 11 2006, 06:00 PM, said:

awm, on Sep 11 2006, 05:35 PM, said:

I'd bid 5♦.

Me, too.

Does it mean that with the hand in Question you can never collect penalty?
P cant double because you will bid 5.Will you double if P passes?

[Codo]

I have defensive tricks for sure and so has pd, so maybe we can collect 5 or more tricks against 4 Spade.
But I read " unfavorable, IMPs", so I would like to make at least game my side. If pds hand is strong enough to collect 800, he may be strong enough for a slam too.
He needs Axx,xx,Kx,Axx to make slam close to 100 % and I have an outside chance, that we will push them to the 5. level. After all, they are at fav. vul.

SO I take the outside vue an bid 4 NT looking for a slam.

Just if the X was a clear penalty- which it was not- I would pass.

[HeartA]

For this kind of hands, it's quite possible that eveyone has shortness. It's even possible that opps can make 4S while we have a slam.

[the hog]

"Well there's some question as to the meaning of double."

Not the way the poster has described it. The X is for penalties. I lead a trump.

[Codo]

The_Hog, on Sep 12 2006, 04:55 PM, said:

"Well there's some question as to the meaning of double."

Not the way the poster has described it. The X is for penalties. I lead a trump.

The descirition was: Agreement is "responsive thru 4♥"

I do not see, why this must imply that the double now is strict penalty.

[pclayton]

Noble - I'll bet if you asked your pard about what a double means, you wouldn't get an answer like "penalty". Convertible values is the norm I think, even if you play responsive doubles through a lower level.

I haven't had a trump stack on this auction in 10 years. There are just too any many hands where pard is 'stuck' holding: Qxx, Ax, Kxxx, Axxx and has to double. I'd double with one less card too.

I'll pull; I like 5♥; this isn't a true 2-suiter. 4N is tempting, but I have no guarantee of a parking place for the 4th diamond, even if pard has the magic hand.

[whereagles]

Codo, on Sep 12 2006, 11:30 AM, said:

The descirition was: Agreement is "responsive thru 4♥"

I do not see, why this must imply that the double now is strict penalty.

Penalty doesn't mean you have KQJT, but sure have points...

[Apollo81]

Codo, on Sep 12 2006, 07:30 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Sep 12 2006, 04:55 PM, said:

"Well there's some question as to the meaning of double."

Not the way the poster has described it. The X is for penalties. I lead a trump.

The descirition was: Agreement is "responsive thru 4♥"

I do not see, why this must imply that the double now is strict penalty.

Responsive thru 4♥ does not imply that X of 4♠ is strict penalty imo.

-Noble

[Apollo81]

pclayton, on Sep 12 2006, 10:45 AM, said:

Noble - I'll bet if you asked your pard about what a double means, you wouldn't get an answer like "penalty". Convertible values is the norm I think, even if you play responsive doubles through a lower level.

I haven't had a trump stack on this auction in 10 years. There are just too any many hands where pard is 'stuck' holding: Qxx, Ax, Kxxx, Axxx and has to double. I'd double with one less card too.

I'll pull; I like 5♥; this isn't a true 2-suiter. 4N is tempting, but I have no guarantee of a parking place for the 4th diamond, even if pard has the magic hand.

My opinion is that pulling is right; at the time I posted I wasn't sure whether pulling to 5♦ or 5♥ is better. After thinking about it some more I think 5♦ is clearly the better of these two options.

[joshs]

Apollo81, on Sep 12 2006, 02:19 PM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 12 2006, 10:45 AM, said:

Noble - I'll bet if you asked your pard about what a double means, you wouldn't get an answer like "penalty". Convertible values is the norm I think, even if you play responsive doubles through a lower level.

I haven't had a trump stack on this auction in 10 years. There are just too any many hands where pard is 'stuck' holding: Qxx, Ax, Kxxx, Axxx and has to double. I'd double with one less card too. 

I'll pull; I like 5♥; this isn't a true 2-suiter. 4N is tempting, but I have no guarantee of a parking place for the 4th diamond, even if pard has the magic hand.

My opinion is that pulling is right; at the time I posted I wasn't sure whether pulling to 5♦ or 5♥ is better. After thinking about it some more I think 5♦ is clearly the better of these two options.

I think 4N should not be rkc, but a scramble (2/3 places to play). You will correct 5C to 5D to imply 6-4. A direct 5D bid should be 5-5 or 6-5 (or maybe 5-6). But if 4N is rkc however impossible that is, you have to decide between 5D and 5H.....

[awm]

My feeling is that I would usually not bid 4♥ over 3♠ on a five-card suit. Usually I will try a double followed by correcting to 4♥ on such a hand, to indicate tolerance for playing the contract elsewhere. Perhaps a very strong five-carder would be acceptable.

Since 4♥ almost shows six, I feel much more comfortable to bid 5♦ over 4♠. Partner will know I am much more likely 6-4 than 5-5 on this sequence.