Help
P-1♠-P-2♣-2♥-2♠-4♦.
Q1: How obvious is 4♦ as agreeing hearts?
Q2: How obvious is 4♦ a natural bid showing support of hearts (real diamond stuff; fit-showing)?
Some idiot I jumped in with for two hands passed my 4♦ call and then called me an idiot for bidding 4♦. Claimed he was an "expert," of course. We had a nine-card heart fit, of course, and 4♥ makes. 4♦ fared not so well...
As an aside, hand #2 (after which I left):
♠Kx ♥xx ♦AKQxxxx ♣Ax
IMP's. RHO opens 1♣. 3NT? Does this classify as "the second idiot bid in a row?" (On the club lead, I happened to guess wrong with Q10x in dummy.)
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How obvious is this call?
#1
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Posted 2006-September-09, 22:22
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
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-P.J. Painter.
#2
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Posted 2006-September-09, 22:44
Q1: Doesn't matter. If your partner doesn't understand it, it's a bad bid.
Q2: See above.
What I am trying to say, playing bridge with a pick-up partner is partly a guessing game about which bids he will understand. (In particular if you know more about bridge than your partner, which you should have assumed from his self-rating.) So you guessed wrong.
Hand #2:
If you guess clubs right, 3N is a great bid. If you guess clubs wrong, its a horrible bid.
Sincerely,
Your Results Merchant
2N - 1 contracts on sale!!! Buy one, get one +710 free!
Q2: See above.
What I am trying to say, playing bridge with a pick-up partner is partly a guessing game about which bids he will understand. (In particular if you know more about bridge than your partner, which you should have assumed from his self-rating.) So you guessed wrong.
Hand #2:
If you guess clubs right, 3N is a great bid. If you guess clubs wrong, its a horrible bid.
Sincerely,
Your Results Merchant
2N - 1 contracts on sale!!! Buy one, get one +710 free!
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#3
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Posted 2006-September-10, 01:35
Q1 & Q2: many local experts have never heard of a fit jump, and some real experts don't even understand the principle of FNJ. However, in this situation it's clear you have a ♥ fit, since you didn't overcall 1♦. It should be either natural fit showing or splinter, and definetly not passable. That expert player should better look at his own mistakes before judging someone elses, because logic gets you as far as '4♦ shows a ♥ fit'.
Q3?: no it's not that idiotic... You almost have 9 tricks, with a bit of luck you'll pull it off. Partner can have ♥A and nothing else, the contract would be laydown, but he can never bid. 3NT is a good description of the hand: solid suit, stopper in opener's suit.
Q3?: no it's not that idiotic... You almost have 9 tricks, with a bit of luck you'll pull it off. Partner can have ♥A and nothing else, the contract would be laydown, but he can never bid. 3NT is a good description of the hand: solid suit, stopper in opener's suit.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#4
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Posted 2006-September-10, 01:37
I think 4♦ clearly shows ♦ and ♥ on the principle that if you couldn't bid your ♦ on the previous round, then the only reason you can bid them now is because of your ♥ support.
On the other hand, will this particual partner understand this reasoning? He didn't bid his ♥ at the first opportunity, so what possible reason can he have for bidding them after the opponents have announced their strength and got a couple of natural bids in?
On the second hand, 3NT looks the sensible practical bid.
On the other hand, will this particual partner understand this reasoning? He didn't bid his ♥ at the first opportunity, so what possible reason can he have for bidding them after the opponents have announced their strength and got a couple of natural bids in?
On the second hand, 3NT looks the sensible practical bid.
#5
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Posted 2006-September-10, 08:34
I have no sympathy for your partner here not figuring out the clear inferences.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
#6
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Posted 2006-September-10, 12:24
hand #1 4D shows certainly a heart fit, but why try it out with an unknown guy,
why complicate matters, try to build up partnership trust over a couple
of boards, after which you may start finding out, if you are on the same
wavelength
One option would be to bid 4H and ask in the post mortem about 4D
hand #2 I would dbl and bid diamonds on any level, the bidding comes back
I understand 3NT, but that is a similar bid as 4D in hand #1
With kind regards
Marlowe
why complicate matters, try to build up partnership trust over a couple
of boards, after which you may start finding out, if you are on the same
wavelength
One option would be to bid 4H and ask in the post mortem about 4D
hand #2 I would dbl and bid diamonds on any level, the bidding comes back
I understand 3NT, but that is a similar bid as 4D in hand #1
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#7
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Posted 2006-September-10, 12:26
keylime, on Sep 10 2006, 09:34 AM, said:
I have no sympathy for your partner here not figuring out the clear inferences.
Really no sympathy?
Do you believe you are the only one,
who gets burned with partners who dont
understand your bids?
Your partner may have lots of bad exp.
trusting bids made by random partners
and got burned.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#8
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Posted 2006-September-10, 14:31
There's a clear reason for that statement.
If my pard, who claims to be expert, can't realize that I could have bid a natural 3D en passant, then something is fundamentally wrong. Once again, self-ratings strike again.
I didn't bid 2NT directly, showing 4 spades. Nor did I splinter directly. So I should have 5 clubs. I then rebid 2S, showing 3 spades by implication (I could have 4-x-x-5 here with a good hand if playing some sort of "standard 2/1"). Pard already knows that if they had club support 3C hits the table after 2S rebid and off you go.
The jump to 4 can't be fitshowing; you have a way to show diamonds naturally with 3D and then 4D (Adjunct: I bet this person would think 3D is FSF, in a game force auction previously established). If you held clubs of course you rebid 3C. It should therefore be either 5-4-1-3 or probably 6-4-1-2.
And I've had my share of bad bids given to me by partners. That's why I have no sympathy; pard can't reason an auction that if they took the 5-8 seconds at the table they would understand the potential for triple fit and good power of the hand. With competent pickups they'd know that you've agreed at least in spades directly and then implicitly in hearts (I'd assume hearts was trump and if regular pard, 4NT is 6ARKCB - with pickups, probably best to cuebid).
With pickups, on the rare occasions that I play with them, I make calls that have an end conclusion. The 4D call has an end goal in mind, namely 6M or higher. I feel for you Ken; truly bad luck indeed.
In summation, pard didn't do the mental lifting of an empty coffee cup to help you.
Hand 2: I'd bid 3NT happily. Too bad it sounds like it went down.
If my pard, who claims to be expert, can't realize that I could have bid a natural 3D en passant, then something is fundamentally wrong. Once again, self-ratings strike again.
I didn't bid 2NT directly, showing 4 spades. Nor did I splinter directly. So I should have 5 clubs. I then rebid 2S, showing 3 spades by implication (I could have 4-x-x-5 here with a good hand if playing some sort of "standard 2/1"). Pard already knows that if they had club support 3C hits the table after 2S rebid and off you go.
The jump to 4 can't be fitshowing; you have a way to show diamonds naturally with 3D and then 4D (Adjunct: I bet this person would think 3D is FSF, in a game force auction previously established). If you held clubs of course you rebid 3C. It should therefore be either 5-4-1-3 or probably 6-4-1-2.
And I've had my share of bad bids given to me by partners. That's why I have no sympathy; pard can't reason an auction that if they took the 5-8 seconds at the table they would understand the potential for triple fit and good power of the hand. With competent pickups they'd know that you've agreed at least in spades directly and then implicitly in hearts (I'd assume hearts was trump and if regular pard, 4NT is 6ARKCB - with pickups, probably best to cuebid).
With pickups, on the rare occasions that I play with them, I make calls that have an end conclusion. The 4D call has an end goal in mind, namely 6M or higher. I feel for you Ken; truly bad luck indeed.
In summation, pard didn't do the mental lifting of an empty coffee cup to help you.
Hand 2: I'd bid 3NT happily. Too bad it sounds like it went down.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
#9
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Posted 2006-September-10, 19:40
There seems to be some confusion over the auction. To clarify:
Partner passes first seat.
My RHO opens 1♣.
I pass.
My LHO responds 1♠.
Partner, having passed as Opener, overcalls 2♥.
Responder's spades are raised (no support X) to 2♠.
I, having not overcalled 1♣, suddenly jump to 4♦.
Partner passes first seat.
My RHO opens 1♣.
I pass.
My LHO responds 1♠.
Partner, having passed as Opener, overcalls 2♥.
Responder's spades are raised (no support X) to 2♠.
I, having not overcalled 1♣, suddenly jump to 4♦.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.
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