[MickyB]

Scoring: IMP

1♠-(X)-?
5 card majors, in case you doubted that.
Edit:What is your plan if the opps compete further?

---

[mr1303]

I'll add my hand (the take-out doubler's partner) once we've had a few replies....

[vang]

I suspect 4S will be a pretty popular choice. anyway, it's mine.

[whereagles]

4♠, followed by 5♠ if pard tries to double them.

[Blofeld]

Lead-direction 2♦?

Really I think this is a 'how many ♠s' question, and my stab at the answer is ... 6.

It might be a good sacrifice against their making slam. It might provoke them into bidding a non-making grand. It might keep them out of a making grand. It might elicit a phantom sacrifice. It might make.

Actually, the last is quite significant. If I bid 4 or 5♠ and it goes all pass, I will be worried about having missed a laydown slam. 6♠ might be wrong ... but it has so many ways to go right. 7420 is a lot better than 7222 here.

[pbleighton]

Hand Evalaution Police!!!!!!!!!

4S.

Peter

[Codo]

4 Diamond as a splinter.
If they compete further, I will bid 4 or5 and hope that my pd is on lead, if they buy the contract in aynthing but diamonds.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

4S, if they compete I will bid
spades, I wont sell out below 5S
and will bid 6S, if partner did have
a chance to hit their 6 level
contract but passes.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mr1303]

Interesting that so many people just bid 4♠ on these cards. This would have made life much easier for me, who held:

---

I had an easy 4NT bid over 4♠. Over 6♠, I had no idea what to do, and was completely guessing.

[MickyB]

At the table, I considered 5♠ and 6♠ before settling on the latter, on the basis that they would probably bid over 5♠ and I'd then want to bid 6♠, so I'd make things a bit harder for them now - rule out the chance of them finding a grand and try to get them to make the wrong decision with regards to doubling. Maybe I overestimated the chance of them bidding over 5♠. To be honest, I can't ever see them defending 4♠ so I don't like that much, when one of the opponents competes over 4♠ I think the other will happily compete over 5♠.

Well, with Mark's hand you are never bidding over 6♠, and always bidding over 4♠. I guess the most interesting question is what to do over 5♠?

[P_Marlowe]

MickyB, on Sep 5 2006, 04:54 AM, said:

At the table, I considered 5♠ and 6♠ before settling on the latter, on the basis that they would probably bid over 5♠ and I'd then want to bid 6♠, so I'd make things a bit harder for them now - rule out the chance of them finding a grand and try to get them to make the wrong decision with regards to doubling. Maybe I overestimated the chance of them bidding over 5♠. To be honest, I can't ever see them defending 4♠ so I don't like that much, when one of the opponents competes over 4♠ I think the other will happily compete over 5♠.

Well, with Mark's hand you are never bidding over 6♠, and always bidding over 4♠. I guess the most interesting question is what to do over 5♠?

The main problem with 6S is, that they dont
need to guess anymore, they just need to dbl.

Maybe 7 is on, but that is a pure guess, and quite
unlikely anyway, and it usually pays to take the
money.

With the given hand (oppossite the takeout dbl)
I will pass and partner will dbl.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: You may convince me, that 5S is a better bid than 4S,
but than, ... sometimes we are able to buy the contract in
4S, they have not always a 5-5 hand, and sometimes partner
is able to make a strength showing dbl of 4NT and has 4 tricks
in his own jhand against any 5 level contrat they may choose.

[Apollo81]

MickyB, on Sep 4 2006, 06:23 AM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ KJ98653 ♥ 8742 ♦   ♣ 43

1♠-(X)-? 5 card majors, in case you doubted that. Edit:What is your plan if the opps compete further?

4♠ is wrong because:

(1) you are sure it is right for the opps to bid over 4♠
(2) under no circumstance will you sell to 5x
(3) you are very confident that 5♠X will be a good score

The same criteria are not true a level higher, so 6♠ seems overexuberant.

Therefore the right bid is 5♠.

-Noble

[david_c]

I like 5♠ personally. I wouldn't bid six, because no matter how many spades you have, with partner holding an opening hand there's going to be a fair chance that opps can't make slam. Though admittedly the full hand doesn't do much to support this point of view.

[mikeh]

When considering preemption, there is a cardinal rule: a rule that can be expressd in two ways: 1) bid as high as is realistic as soon as possible... never preempt and then bid again, or 2) make the opps make the last guess.

If you bid 4♠, you will be very uncomfortable if the opps bid 5minor... you will want to bid again... and in wanting to bid again, you are making the last guess.

So 4♠ is inadequate.

OTOH, there is no reason to assume that the opps are cold for 12 tricks... partner did open, and he has to have cards outside of ♠....

6♠ forces good opps to double, unless LHO has a true freak, in which case nothing we do will matter much. There is far too much chance that the opps cannot make slam for us to force them to double, rather than to guess.

5♠ is just right.... we are probably at the right level for our side, and the opps now have to guess: we will be passing whatever they bid.... their guess will be the last one on this hand.

If we were at favourable, I would have bid 5♦.... natural and to play.... down 10 undoubled would not be a first for me, nor even the most I have gone down undoubled....

[whereagles]

Apollo81, on Sep 5 2006, 03:33 PM, said:

4♠ is wrong because:

(1) you are sure it is right for the opps to bid over 4♠
(2) under no circumstance will you sell to 5x
(3) you are very confident that 5♠X will be a good score

(1) But that doesn't mean they WILL bid over 4♠, does it?
(2) And what's the problem with that?
(3) I'm even more confident that 4♠X will be a good score.

Thus, I find nothing wrong with 4♠.

[whereagles]

mikeh, it's true that 5♠ is the law bid. But the law isn't always correct and in my experience 4♠ often buys the pot. Especially if pard has a med-max hand.

[joshs]

MickyB, on Sep 4 2006, 05:23 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

1♠-(X)-?
5 card majors, in case you doubted that.
Edit:What is your plan if the opps compete further?

---

Its between 5 and 6S. I am a 6 spade bidder on grounds:
a. we might make slam
b. they might make slam
c. I can't easily find out if either a or b is true
d. We are unlikely to go down more than 2.

[mikeh]

whereagles, on Sep 5 2006, 11:23 AM, said:

mikeh, it's true that 5♠ is the law bid. But the law isn't always correct and in my experience 4♠ often buys the pot. Especially if pard has a med-max hand.

I like the LOTT, but I don't use it on this type of hand... we simply lack the requisite information as to total trumps, plus the LOTT breaks down on freaks.

[mike777]

Again If I do not bid a direct 5S on this hand then when?

[Apollo81]

MickyB, on Sep 4 2006, 06:23 AM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ KJ98653 ♥ 8742 ♦   ♣ 43

1♠-(X)-? 5 card majors, in case you doubted that. Edit:What is your plan if the opps compete further?

So for the people that bid 5♠: what would you do if LHO bid (and it went pass pass)

(1) 6♣
(2) 6♦
(3) 6♥

me: 1,3: double
2: pass