[jocdelevat]

Scoring: IMP

I open 1♠ pass 2♦your bid?

---

.

Hello everyone

I open 1 spade lho pass my p 2d.
2 questions i have here:
1.if I bid 3d here is the proper response or is a weak response?
2.What are advantages and disadvantges to open 1nt with 5 card major?(I think my hand better describe with 1nt but i do not open 1nt with 5 card major).

I play BBO basic SAYC I'm beginner-intermediate and I goof often than play good.

Last night with those hands I tried to reinvent the wheel. I open 1s my p 2d and I thought to force a 3nt with a 2h after my p 2d( imps tourney go Joc bid game) instead to go for the golden number 8 the normal bid 3d. The funy part is my pard intermediate either thought maybe I have 5 spades and 4 hearts and jump to 6H. I was shock but I knew that I started the chain reaction of mistakes and at the end I didn't corect his bid to at least 6nt or 7d.

Thanks for advice in advance
Best regards
Jocdelevat

[han]

I tend to open 1NT with these hands, but it is not clear to me that it is better. The advantage is that you get to describe the strength and general shape in one bid. A good partnership will have well developed responses to 1NT, and will generally have an easy time reaching a decent contract.

The obvious disadvantage is that often you won't describe a very important feature of your hand: the excellent 5-card spade suit.

I believe the SAYC document that can be found on the website of the ACBL says that the auction 1S-2D-3D is forcing. It is not clear that this is useful: many people who claim to play SAYC have not given this auction much thought. With a pick-up partner I would bid 3D because I think that it is the right bid, but I wouldn't be surprised or angry if my partner would pass this. That's life when you play pick-up bridge.

[plaur]

If you are playing SAYC then responder promises to bid again, so both 2NT or 3♦ are forcing! And I would have a hard time chosing between the two :-)

3NT shows a stronger hand.

[luke warm]

i would have opened 1nt (15-17 anyway) and 3d should be forcing

[DelfinoD]

jocdelevat, on Apr 10 2006, 10:25 AM, said:

1.if I bid 3d here is the proper response or is a weak response?

2.What are advantages and disadvantges to open 1nt with 5 card major?(I think my hand better describe with 1nt but i do not open 1nt with 5 card major).

1) It depends on the system. I'm not sure how it is in SAYC, but in natural systems 3d would be weak (12-14). In Polish style for example it's forcing, and with 12-14 you bid 2s (2nt would also be forcing).

2) If you don't open 1nt with 2533 or 3523 etc. you are in big trouble after:

1h - 1s
?

if 2nt is forcing (if it isn't you have a big problem with strong balanced or single-suited hands) you have to lie somehow.

I don't think there's a need to open 1nt with 5 spades. But anyway 1nt is very rare opening so it would be nice to put hands with a 5 major there. This way you can distinguish hands between nt or suit oriented, which would allow you to find better contracts. Of course if you plan to open 1nt with 5 major you should use reversed Stayman.

Anyway I'm not sure If I would open 1nt with this hand even if my system allowed to. It's not that nt oriented. I would preffer something like this: KW10xx KWx ADx Dx

1nt is much more important opening for the minors. For example if the bidding goes

1c - 1s
3s

You can be almost sure that opener has 5+c and shortage in h or d is very probbable (he would open 1nt with balanced hand). That's why I like to use 2d Multi with 18-20 bal meaning. Along with 2nt (21-22) all your rebids showing 15+pc also show long opening suit, which is very nice feature.

[awm]

Certainly opening 1NT would be reasonable -- the doubleton queen is a notrumpy holding and having three hearts (in case partner transfers) is also a plus. But 1♠ isn't wrong.

There's a general problem playing standard american of what to do when opener has a really good hand with a fit for partner's suit. If 1♠-2♦-3♦ wouldn't be forcing, you're really stuck on many hands that have a diamond fit and more than a minimum. It's part of SAYC to play that this raise is forcing; with a bad hand you're not supposed to bid above two of your major (so you rebid 2♠, then bid diamonds later if partner tries 2NT or the like). However, I wouldn't bet on a pickup partner knowing this, as a lot of "standard" bidders do play raises like this as non-forcing.

Anyways, if I was going to fake a suit to create a force, I wouldn't pick hearts. If partner has a fit for hearts you'll never be let off the hook. I think 3NT would be the least of evils if playing 3♦ as non-forcing here.

[luis]

About opening 1NT or not with 5M I like opening 1NT with 5 card majors but let's think you don't have that agreement with your pd.

Whenever you start with
1♠ - 2♦

You should then play 2NT as 15-17 a hand that you didn't open 1NT because of the 5 card major, that will be descriptive to pd.
With a balanced hand in the 11-14 range feel free to rebid the major even with 5 cards.
A jump to 3NT will usually show 18-19 balanced.
Support the minor only with an unbalanced hand with 4 card support for the minor.

I think this is quite easy to handle. You could revert the meaning of 2M and 2NT which is more SAYCesque I think but inmediately teling pd when you have 15-17 is a good idea.

There is a nice exception in the sequence
1♥ - 1♠
Because only now opener has a 1NT response available then:

1NT = 11-14 balanced
2NT = 18-19 balanced
2♥ = 6+ cards
And when you have 15-17 balanced you need to bid 2♣ or 2♦ even with 3 cards

Hope it helps
Luis.

[DelfinoD]

luis, on Apr 27 2006, 03:25 PM, said:

Whenever you start with
1♠ - 2♦

You should then play 2NT as 15-17 a hand that you didn't open 1NT because of the 5 card major, that will be descriptive to pd.
With a balanced hand in the 11-14 range feel free to rebid the major even with 5 cards.

And what do you do if the bidding goes:

1♦ - 2♣
?

And you are bal. with 12-14 and 3-4♦?

I couldn't ever find a solution for this sequence in SAYC.

[hotShot]

DelfinoD, on Apr 28 2006, 10:29 AM, said:

And what do you do if the bidding goes:

1♦ - 2♣
?

And you are bal. with 12-14 and 3-4♦?

I couldn't ever find a solution for this sequence in SAYC.

Bidding a major now would be revers and strong, since y2♣ is forcing you have to bid. Since you can't repeat yout ♦ and can't raise the ♣ the only bid left is 2NT (you need around 15+ to try 3NT).

[DelfinoD]

hotShot, on Apr 28 2006, 03:57 AM, said:

Bidding a major now would be revers and strong, since y2♣ is forcing you have to bid. Since you can't repeat yout ♦ and can't raise the ♣ the only bid left is 2NT (you need around 15+ to try 3NT).

That's what I would do. But this is a problem with Luis suggessstion. You can forget that here 2nt is 12-14. Of course jumping to 3nt is a waste of space. And what will you do with 18-20 hands like 4♦333?

[hotShot]

Look:
1minor - something from Partner => 1NT shows 12-14
now if partner forces you on the two level, 2NT takes over the role of 1NT.
Since you can have only 3m cards you can't repeat the color.

With 15-17 and a 5 card Major you bid your M first. So your NT rebid shows that you could have opened NT. If you are weak you can repeat your 5 card suit, or bid a lover suit.

As to 4♦333 you must decide, are your 18-20 and partners 6-? good enough for 3NT.
So after 1over1 answers jump to 2NT, after 2over1 answers to 3NT.