[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     1♦    Dbl   1♠
 2♥    2♠    Pass  4♠
 Pass  Pass  Dbl   Pass
 Pass  Pass  

what do you think of the bidding here, can you make 10 tricks ?

J club lead won with Ace and AK heart returned

[jillybean]

I think 2♠ is an overbid, the 3♠'s you have are not great - sitting behind doubler Q♥ could be wasted.

If north passes 2♥ south can show ♦fit.

There could be a case for south showing ♦ support initialy, after double I'd be happy showing 9card♦ fit here.

[inquiry]

1. What do you think of the bidding?

Not very much. Specifically. I would probably open North 1NT even playing 15-17 NT (I generally play 14-16) but 1♦ is not bad and we can call it normal. East dbl is normal enough, and I like 1♠ and 2♥ bids. Playing support doubles, North could double 2♥ and you get to play in ♦, so I assume support doubles are not played a simple 2♠ bid and a nonforcing 3♦ rebid by south seem appropriate. At imps if vulnerable, i would have more sympathy for the leap to 4♠ but not vul, an invite is better.

2. Can you win 10 tricks.

No. South is down to 3 trumps if he ruffs the heart, and will ahve to lose the spade K and a long spade to EAST. that is two more trump losers as the very least.

[luke warm]

i doubt i'd be in game here... it'd go

1d : 1s
1nt : 2c*
2d : 3d pass

*2 way cb

[pbleighton]

At my table the bidding would go:

1D-P-1S-2H-2S(no support X)-3S-AP

Peter

[EricK]

I hate much of the NS bidding. Going through each bid in turn:

Playing Strong NT I would have opened 1NT but 1D isn't bad.

The double is OK

I don't think much of 1♠. RHO is likely to have spade length so even if we have a ♠ fit (which isn't all that likely) a ♠ contract might not play very well. We certainly have a ♦ fit though and that will play well. Furthermore, opponents surely have a ♥ fit, probably 9 cards long, I want to make it harder for them to locate the right level if it is their hand.

2♥ is OK

2♠ would be fine opposite the sort of hand I would have bid 1♠ on. Not so much if partner can have a weak 4 card suit.

Pass is fine. He has a minimal double and partner has bid his shortest suit.

4♠ is an overbid if partner has 4♠. It is a gross overbid if partner might only have 3. A 3♦ bid tells partner everything about your hand. It is a common mistake to rebid 4 card suits which have been supported. If partner has 4♠ he can always go back to them later. If he only has 3 he might be thankful to be given another option.

The next two passes are fine, but East's double is aggressive. For all he knows, NS might have 5 spade tricks and 5 diamond tricks.

[hotShot]

I need a few extra informations, does 1♠ promise 5cards?
I don't think so, thats why 2♠ is an inacceptible bid, misdescribing distribution. (But this won't keep me from it, from time to time. 2♠ with 7 trump can lead to good results, but it must be clear that the bid is nonforcing. If it fails, just anounce "My fault partner")
I'm not sure about the strength. I don't think that 2♠ can be understood as reverse strength, partner is just showing fit, with no extras. So 4♠ is an overbid unjustified by south strength.

[1eyedjack]

EricK, on Apr 15 2006, 09:44 AM, said:

I don't think much of 1♠. RHO is likely to have spade length so even if we have a ♠ fit (which isn't all that likely) a ♠ contract might not play very well.

I reckon I would have bid 1S.
The double does not promise 4xS
If doubler has 4xS it does not prevent us from having a 4-4 S fit.
If we end up in Spades (presumably only when the fit is adequate) we will know who to play for the opposing Spade length, which will somewhat offset the disadvantage of the likely bad break.
We have a Diamond fit to fall back on if we don't have an adequate Spade fit.
If we have a Spade fit and I don't bid 1S at this opportunity there is a fair chance of the fit going missing. Partner will not thank me for that.

To my mind the bidding was fairly normal. There were a few bids that were marginal but excusable. I reckon the leap to 4S takes the blame, if North is under pressure to support with 3 cards

[EricK]

1eyedjack, on Apr 15 2006, 10:36 AM, said:

EricK, on Apr 15 2006, 09:44 AM, said:

I don't think much of 1♠. RHO is likely to have spade length so even if we have a ♠ fit (which isn't all that likely) a ♠ contract might not play very well.

I reckon I would have bid 1S.
The double does not promise 4xS
If doubler has 4xS it does not prevent us from having a 4-4 S fit.
If we end up in Spades (presumably only when the fit is adequate) we will know who to play for the opposing Spade length, which will somewhat offset the disadvantage of the likely bad break.
We have a Diamond fit to fall back on if we don't have an adequate Spade fit.
If we have a Spade fit and I don't bid 1S at this opportunity there is a fair chance of the fit going missing. Partner will not thank me for that.

To my mind the bidding was fairly normal. There were a few bids that were marginal but excusable. I reckon the leap to 4S takes the blame, if North is under pressure to support with 3 cards

You might have a 4-4 spade fit although it is unlikely. One further downside of bidding 1♠ on this auction simply because you have 4 ♠ is that it prevents the opponents from wandering into their 4-4 ♠ fit. If you give the opponents a chance to go wrong, maybe they will.

I think the downsides of bidding 1♠ outweigh the upsides. I realize that this opinion is against the mainstream, but, like in so many other areas of competitive bidding, I think many players remain stuck in their "two-handed" thinking and forget that the opponents are trying to reach their best contract too.

[hotShot]

EricK, on Apr 15 2006, 03:05 PM, said:

You might have a 4-4 spade fit although it is unlikely. One further downside of bidding 1♠ on this auction simply because you have 4 ♠ is that it prevents the opponents from wandering into their 4-4 ♠ fit. If you give the opponents a chance to go wrong, maybe they will.

I think the downsides of bidding 1♠ outweigh the upsides. I realize that this opinion is against the mainstream, but, like in so many other areas of competitive bidding, I think many players remain stuck in their "two-handed" thinking and forget that the opponents are trying to reach their best contract too.

There is also the upside, that partner can bid NT because we promise to have some kind of ♠ stopper.
Additionally 1♠ is no longer available, and even with a ♠ fit, opps might not want to play it, because of the bad break .....

[plaur]

Good hand. I would have bid the same way up to the last 4♠. I would have a hard time evaluating the south hand. On a 4-3 fit I am ruffing ♥ in the wrong hand and it looks like the doubler could have 4 spades. 3♦ invitational seems right.
I will print out the hand and bid it with my reg partner.

Question: If south does bid 3♦ and it goes pass to North, what is her bid? How does one evaluate the North hand then?

[Wackojack]

I would recommend support doubles playing a strong no trump,5 card major system- it give you more options. Also amen to everything Ben said in his post.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

noz playing suppX, the raise is your
only option, with the South hand I
would bid 3D, which is inv. and
tells partner about the diamond fit,
and North will pass.

The 4S bid kills partner,who may be
under pressure, you have a "4-4" fit,
you have a 2nd fit in diamonds, but inv.
is enough, at least for me, since I dont
play the cards like ...

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Kalvan14]

I've no problem with the 1♠ bid: often the doubler has just 3 cards in spades, and in any case best policy is normally ignoring the double.
However, if you bid this way, the support doubles are strongly recommended.
In the particular case, after the 2♠ raise, I would have bid 3♦ (invitational, and denying a 5-card spade suit).