[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - ?

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Playing in the HB tourney tonight. Just the 2nd call and things are already awkward.

Your call?

[awm]

Well 2♦ seems pretty clear to me. This really has to be some kind of forcing bid (not clear if it guarantees diamonds or not). What to do next may be harder, especially if 2♦ doesn't necessarily set up a game force.

[pclayton]

2♦ is obvious.

However, a nice forcing 3♣ is useful too.

[Echognome]

Not to curb the discussion from this question, but if you bid 2♦, partner bids 3♦. You can think about that question simultaneously.

[mike777]

Echognome, on Mar 21 2006, 04:28 PM, said:

Not to curb the discussion from this question, but if you bid 2♦, partner bids 3♦.  You can think about that question simultaneously.

4c now over 3d.

Will take 4s over 4c as an offer to play there.

[inquiry]

2♦ is automatic, 3♦ is worrysome. Partner had a chance to bid NT and didn't, But the rebid over 3D is equally automatic, I would rebid 3♠ which after NMF is forcing.

I assume your partner's 3D bid based upon real diamonds, that makes him 4-5 or more just as likely 4-6 in the minors. If he can't bid 3NT, he has at most two points in the majors (spade J and heart J) and with spade J he will raise spades without a heart stopper. With a heart stopper he will bid 3NT. The question is will you bid game if he bids 4 of a minor.

If he bids 4 diamonds, I guess you are endplayed in too five clubs. If he bids four clubs, he will ahve 12 at least of these 15 hcp: DKQJ, CAKQ. In otherwords, he will be missing a king or a queen jack (he will not have all 15 if he bids 4C). So you have a choice over 4C.. pass or bid game. At MP the field will be in game I think, but it rates to be 50-50 if partner is missing the clbu honors and maybe 50=50 (or sliighly better based upon spades) if he is missing the diamand King. HE maybe missing the club ace I guess as well (giveing him only 11 hcp in the minors). At imps, I simply bid 5C and hope for the best. At matchpoints, appreciated taht you will get a bottom if game makes as no one stops short, but you have about equal chances either way. I am hoping for 6C , 4S, and 1D so I bid 5C even at mp.

[JohnnyH7]

2D then 4C for me as well. It's very hard to construct hands where partner is 4-6 in the minors and has 1 heart stopper where 5C goes down and 3N makes. However, it's very easy to construct hands were 5C makes and 3N goes set, and 6C is still in play if partners stopper is the ace. Opposite a typical hand like x Kx Kxxx KQxxxx I would want to be in 5C. Opposite a hand such as x Ax Kxxx AQTxxx I would like to be in 6C. Both of these hands will rebid 3N if I try 3S after partners 3D bid.

[jdonn]

2D is automatic. After 3D I like 3S to emphasize the values and perhaps reach a good 5-2 fit for game, for example xx xx KQx AKxxxx. We might wrongside 3NT if partner is 0346 with Kxx or Axx of hearts but that can't be avoided, and we might rightside anyway opposite Ax for all we know. This may also coax partner into 3NT on Jxx.

[cherdano]

I would like to propose a law:

With a balanced hand, you have to bid NT at least once during an auction, or show desire to play NT by bidding 4th suit forcing.

IMO bidding 4♣ over 3♦ sounds too much like 5=1=4=3. So I like Echo's choice here (he bid 2♦ and then 3♥ over 3♦, then raised my 4♣ to 5♣), but rebidding 3♠ seems equally fine.

Arend

[mike777]

cherdano, on Mar 21 2006, 05:36 PM, said:

I would like to propose a law:

With a balanced hand, you have to bid NT at least once during an auction, or show desire to play NT by bidding 4th suit forcing.

IMO bidding 4♣ over 3♦ sounds too much like 5=1=4=3. So I like Echo's choice here (he bid 2♦ and then 3♥ over 3♦, then raised my 4♣ to 5♣), but rebidding 3♠ seems equally fine.

Arend

That sounds like a nice rule but what about the rule that says support partner with support, partner has bid clubs twice and we still do not support her? Of course this is a problem hand and I can see the point of rebidding 3s or 3H.

[Walddk]

The only forcing bids available are 2♦ and 2♥. It's usually a bad idea to lie about your length in a major as long as opener hasn't denied 4 of them, so we only have 2♦ left now.

If he supports diamonds with 4-5 or 4-6 in the minors, I will bid 3♠ next. 3NT might be the right spot opposite Jxx, but I will never be able to find out.

Roland

[Kalvan14]

Am I the only one who sees slam chances here?
Pard is certainly 4-6 in the minors (with 4 diamonds and 5 clubs, he should open 1♦); if his major holding is 2♠ and a singleton heart, there are good chances for a slam. Even a sub-minimum hand [xx x KJxx AQTxxx] plays slam on a club finesse.

The trickiest point (in a non-established partnership) is to avoid the risk that opener corrects the final contract to diamonds, playing advancer for 4 cards in that suit. IMHO, it should not be a big risk: I play NMF (2♥ would not be forcing, and asks opener to pass or correct; the only forcing bid is 2♦, which does not guarantee diamonds at all. OTOH, in an auction 1♣-1♠-2♣-2♦-3♦, 4♣ is certainly forcing, and asks for a cue-bid. Slam is playable also with either x Ax KJxx KQxxxx or x Ax KQTx KTxxxx: both this hands are consistent with the bidding, but if advancers puts in a FSF the auction will be muddled.

[awm]

How about bidding 3♠ over 3♦, then 4♣ (slam try) over 3NT? As soon as partner shows the heart stopper, slam chances seem relatively good provided partner's clubs are good.

If partner raises 3♠ to 4♠, this is probably a 2-1-4-6 pattern, which may also give good slam chances (in either of spades or clubs). On the other hand, if partner bids 4♣ over 3♠, then the spade cards are fairly wasted and we have a problem in hearts, so I'd just raise to 5♣.

[pclayton]

If my regular pard rebid 3♦, I would definitely assume a 4-6 or a prime 4-5. We usually rebid 1N with 1=3=4=5 or 2=2=4=5 and raise the major with 3=1=4=5.

Accordingly, 3N is looking less and less possible and the tea leaves point toward 5 or 6♣.

However, pard may be some sort of 0=3=4=6 where we have a soft landing in 3N with the likes of: void, AJx, Qxxx, KQxxxx.

So temporize with 3♠ for now.