[bearmum]

Walddk, on Dec 24 2005, 12:23 AM, said:

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> Both </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> 86432 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> AQJ3 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> A1043 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

Do you open this hand in 1st seat? Before you reply, you may want to consider what your rebid will be if partner responds 2♥.

Roland

I WILL open the hand but firstly WHAT system are you playing ?? IF SAYC -- will P bid TWO♥ over a minor suit opening from me?? -- and if so is that WJS or SJS (16+) ?

The answers to the above questions will impact what I bid first BUT I am sure going to bid on this hand

[Walddk]

I did not have the imagination to contemplate that anyone would open 1 of a minor. I thought the only problem was if this is a 1♠-opening or a pass. I do not play canape openings in my natural systems.

Roland

[Fluffy]

Walddk, on Dec 24 2005, 01:01 PM, said:

I did not have the imagination to contemplate that anyone would open 1 of a minor. I thought the only problem was if this is a 1♠-opening or a pass. I do not play canape openings in my natural systems.

Roland

Neither do I, I don't open 4CM either

[hrothgar]

Walddk, on Dec 24 2005, 04:01 PM, said:

I did not have the imagination to contemplate that anyone would open 1 of a minor. I thought the only problem was if this is a 1♠-opening or a pass. I do not play canape openings in my natural systems.

Roland

none of the individuals suggesting a 1♦ are doing so in the context of a canape opening style. Rather, they suggesting that judgement can be applied within the context of "standard" bidding.

Good players routinely exercise judgement regarding the strength of different hands. Some 14 HCP hands are worth a "15-17" HCP 1NT opening. Some 15 HCP hands are not. Players recommending a 1m opening are exercising the same discretionary power...

As you yourself noted in the original posting, one of the main problems with a 1♠ opening is the dubious quality of the "5" card suit. Accordingly, a lot of the player who chose to open explicitly compensate by treating xxxxx as 4 cards.

This is very different from an agreement to play canape

[han]

I would open 1S and painlessly rebid 2S.

[Stephen Tu]

I don't see much upside in opening a minor instead of 1S. If partner has 3 spades, I think a spade contract will be best a very large percentage of the time, and opening a minor will make it almost impossible to reach. Playing in spades, even if partner's are relatively poor, will give you the time to score the long spades whereas in a notrump contract, you might end up having to pitch them on the opponent's winning hearts.

This effect on an extremely common holding for partner is in my estimate going to overwhelm any potential gains in possibly avoiding a spade lead on defense or better hand evaluation.

I'd rather compensate for the bad trumps by being more conservative in response to partner's spade game/slam tries than by distorting the opening suit selection. This should be a statement of length in the suit, not strength, and partner has to take this into account, including your type of hand as a possibility.

[Kalvan14]

Pass is out of question; and putting away my lovely 8-high flush in spades would be a sin .

1♠, and over the dreaded 2♥ [which might never come], 2♠.
I have the promised values, and the spades suit is not worse than Jxxxx or Qxxxx.

1♦ is masterminding, IMHO: going along that path, let's agree that all openings in a major guarantee 2 high honors (and then let's play canape).

[mikestar]

This hand really stinks. Let's look at the heart situation. If only one player has 5+ ♥, it is 2-1 that it is an opponent. But if there are two players with 5+ ♥, it's 2-1 that partner is one of them. So 2♥ isn't merely scary--it's terrifying. What will I do after 1♠-2♥-2♠-3♥? But neither passing nor opening 1♦ guarantees that partner won't get in trouble if he has a ♥ 1 suiter--partner might well bid ♥ twice even with a ♦ fit if I open 1♦, and might open a third seat ♥ preempt if I pass.

So the upshot is that I can't protect myself from my worst nightmare in any case. So I open 1♠ and pray for a 2♥ overcall from LHO. If I get 2♥ from partner, I bid 2♠ and take my lumps.

One bad point about playing a minor suit fit is that four trumps ruffing a void may not be enough trump control, especially in diamonds where you may have to ruff with high trumps.

[Chamaco]

In one of my partnerships we have agreed that it is *possible* (not mandatory) to refuse to open a really bad 5cM, and treat it as a 4 card suit.

This implies that in those rare cases, a 1D opening is acceptable (even if the minor is a 4 bagger).

So, playing in such partnership, I'd gladly open 1D, knowing that this would not break the pship agreements.

============

In a pickup pship, I'd sadly reconcile to having to bid 1S, despite the bad suit and the terrible non-desciptive 2S rebid over responder's 2H.

Honors concentration matters, if we are going to adopt the in-and-out principles.

[keylime]

I open this hand happily 1♠ and rebid 2 ♠ in my methods, which denies extras (i.e. slowish arrival).

[the hog]

luis, on Dec 24 2005, 07:06 AM, said:

Passing is out of the question
I might open this 1♣
If I open 1♠ I would rebid 2♠ over 2♥

I agree with Luis. I would open 1S. This is an obvious opening.

[Flame]

I Like the 1♦ idea.

[fyrish]

Not an "obvious" opening for me but I think I'd bid 1♠ as I suspect that we've got a spade fit and opponents have a heart fit. If I don't bid spades first partner will not believe I have 5.

[inquiry]

Walddk, on Dec 24 2005, 08:01 AM, said:

I did not have the imagination to contemplate that anyone would open 1 of a minor. I thought the only problem was if this is a 1♠-opening or a pass. I do not play canape openings in my natural systems.

Roland

Pass is impossible... for us ZAR guys, you could change one of the minor diamond honors for a small card and IT IS STILL an opener.

I don't play canape (but for the record with 5S and 5C I strongly tend to open 1C). On this hand, however, that five card spade suit looks very much like a four card suit to me. So I will buck the trend and open this 1♣ planning on rebidding 1♠. If partner bids 2♥ over 1♦, then I will bid 3♠ (natural) as he is showing 5♠ and 4♥ and a weak hand.

[sceptic]

I would open 1 spade and rebid two spades over 2 hearts

IU am curious what is so bad about downgrading the spade suit to a 4 card suit if you are so worried about a 2 heart rebid?

[luke warm]

i'd open 1d and over 1h bid 1s, showing a 3 suiter with short hearts ... nah, in a natural system it wouldn't occur to me to open anything other than 1s.. i'd bid 2s over 2h

[calabres]

In the agressiv bridge play we saw in actuality, I think a PASS is out of my mind.

Of course will open 1♠, and lets see what happens.

Any board has it story and a kind of own "soul".

Bridge is a chalenge.

[kenrexford]

I'd venture that NOT opening 1D is masterminding.

[coyot]

Add me to the 1♦ club. If partner by any luck responds 1♠, 3♥ will make him happy :-). If he responds 1♥, 1♠ will show 4-4 unbalanced (which statistically discourages heart rebid...

1♠ is IMHO a terrible bid for a few reasons indicated above (lead from Kx, cowardly bidding with spade shortness, unhappy 2♠ contract against any doubleton...