[mikeh]

Kalvan14, on Dec 7 2005, 06:20 PM, said:

2♣ always guarantees at least 3♣ [the only case where you may have just 2 clubs is in an auction 1♥-1N-2♣]

We are opening 1N with 5-card major and 15-17 HCP, so another chunk of hands with just 3 clubs is gone.

2♦ (BART) is certainly an option. IMO, this is a very peculiar hand: a 6-5 with a guaranteed fit of at least 8 cards in ♣. If this were MP, I would probably have used BART, since I would not like to loose the 3N option (even if it would make me a bit nervous playing 3N). This time I choose to re-bid 4♣ [certainly non-forcing, after my 1N, but highly invitational], which IMHO is the most descriptive bid.

Whatever. If you bid 2♦, pard rebids 3♥; if you bid 4♣, pard rebids 4♥.
Any idea?

I am not jumping to slam unless I see no other alternative.

4♠ is out: who knows what 4♠ shows on this jammed auction, but it could be a delayed effort to play there (not my choice) or a cue-bid, and I will not make my first cue bid on a void in partner's known long suit.

4N: to me this is the standout choice, but I appreciate that the great majority of bridge players devoted too much of their education to learning various forms of blackwood

To me, in a 4-level cue-bidding minor-suit auction, 4N is a positive non-specific move. It says: I like my hand for slam purposes, but not enough for me to drive beyond 5♣. In particular, my hand is too strong to bid 5♣, and I do not want to bid 4♠.

Partner will look at Aces and ♣ texture and bid accordingly. With Axxxx Axx x AQJx he should bid 6: with KJxxx AQx x AQxx it is close. With KQJxx Axx x AJxx he should bid 5♣.

If 4N is keycard for you, consider changing your methods and in the meantime bid 5 or 6 ♣ depending on how conservative a bidder partner is and how lucky you feel.

All of this presupposes that partner has not made a basic bridge error, thinking that we have agreed ♥, but one should NEVER assume that partner is a moron. If he is a moron, then he will learn it shortly: if he is not, and you have played him to be one, he had better have a good sense of humour

[pclayton]

If I was playing a semi-forcing 1N, then 4♣ has some appeal. But if 2!c can be some random 5332 then 4♣ seems overexhuberant.

I'm not familiar enough with BART to know if this hand is good enough for a slow sequence to show a good raise.

[mike777]

"Partner will look at Aces and ♣ texture and bid accordingly. With Axxxx Axx x AQJx he should bid 6: with KJxxx AQx x AQxx it is close. With KQJxx Axx x AJxx he should bid 5♣."

I must admit with last hand example I would have just bid 4D over 4 Clubs and found out I was missing 2 key cards...and ended up in 5 clubs...bidding 4h slam try seems way too much after bidding 3H.
4d=4nt=2 without queen.
5C=signoff missing 2 keycards.

[Kalvan14]

• Partner is not a moron
  
• 4H is certainly a cue-bid agreeing clubs
  
• partner has almost certainly a non-balanced hand : best guess would be 5-3-1-4 or 5-2-1-5. Might be 6-2-1-4. Must have 4/+ clubs.
  
• 4NT would not be KC or Blackwood. The standard agreement we play is that guarantees a control in the unbid suits, and is positive. You might call it a "very serious" 4N
  
• 4D would not be RKC either. In such an auction, it is quite unlikely that KC can be the answer to all the problems. 4D or 4H are the only positive cue-bids available for opener, and they must be used to give a picture of the hand. 4S would tend to deny 4C, and certainly would show 6 spades. Btw, before someone asks: a hand featuring 6 spades and 5 losers or less would not be opened 1S.
  
• if the auction had been 1S-1N-2D-4D the positive cue bids would have been 4H and 5C
  
• 4NT (by opener) would again be positive, and forward going, but it would deny 1st round control in either of the unbid suits.

[mike777]

Kalvan14, on Dec 7 2005, 08:49 PM, said:

• Partner is not a moron
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 4H is certainly a cue-bid agreeing clubs
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• partner has almost certainly a non-balanced hand : best guess would be 5-3-1-4 or 5-2-1-5. Might be 6-2-1-4. Must have 4/+ clubs.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 4NT would not be KC or Blackwood. The standard agreement we play is that guarantees a control in the unbid suits, and is positive. You might call it a "very serious" 4N
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 4D would not be RKC either. In such an auction, it is quite unlikely that KC can be the answer to all the problems. 4D or 4H are the only positive cue-bids available for opener, and they must be used to give a picture of the hand. 4S would tend to deny 4C, and certainly would show 6 spades. Btw, before someone asks: a hand featuring 6 spades and 5 losers or less would not be opened 1S.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• if the auction had been 1S-1N-2D-4D the positive cue bids would have been 4H and 5C
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 4NT (by opener) would again be positive, and forward going, but it would deny 1st round control in either of the unbid suits.

Good luck all of this seems like a lawyer preparing the case of why partner is confused and messed up, all this serious cuebidding, etc...uggg...just give me good old rkc at a low level....cheers!

Once partner bids 4H cuebid for clubs but not RKC, I really think she is showing huge hand that for some reason cannot bid RKC.

Please note 2d and then 4clubs are really minimum invite bids, I have so much more once partner bids 3H and then 4H!

[Kalvan14]

A lawyer's case? I was just giving here the partnership agreements.
There is no trick involved.

[mike777]

I assume if partner's number one priority were keycards she would have bid it. Now whatever partner needs outside of keycards I think I got it.

[Kalvan14]

The auction at the table was:
1♠ - 1NT - 2♣ - 4♣ - 4♥ - 4NT - 6♣

Partner has his bid: QJT9x AKx J AQxx

Lead was diamond, and the slam was made even with diamonds 4-2 and clubs 3-1

I believe that it was easier this way, but it would have worked via BART too [1♠-1N-2♣-2♦-3♥-4♣] provided that partner cue-bids over 4♣.

Since 3♥ certainly shows a maximum hands (and for what I said before implicitly guarantees 4♣) advancer should have some strong expectations of slam in any case. The problem might be if opener's clubs are weak (say Qxxx, with the spade A). Even in such a case - and assuming that we still miss the club J - the slam is still better than an even chance.

[Fluffy]

adhoc3, on Dec 7 2005, 08:37 AM, said:

mike777, on Dec 6 2005, 07:52 PM, said:

2D=BART, planning to rebid 3 clubs showing a good club raise next.
Hardy plays BART ala Mike Passell, see page 46 of Hardy book.

2D seems too low. Opps could have a big fit in Heart.

It is unlikelly that they will bid 2♥ when 2♦ normally shows 5+♥, don't you think?