BBO Discussion Forums: Overcalls hand 4 - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Overcalls hand 4

Poll: Whats your bid (30 member(s) have cast votes)

Whats your bid

  1. 1NT (8 votes [26.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.67%

  2. Pass (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Double (3 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  4. Other (19 votes [63.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.33%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2005-December-02, 16:03

hrothgar, on Dec 2 2005, 04:56 PM, said:

Comment 1: 1NT suggests, but doesn't promise a balanced hand

News to me... I would say of my 1N overcalls about 1 % them have a stiff (probably less). When they do, they are deviating from system because no bid is attractive (unlike here where we have a very attractive natural bid).

Quote

Comment 2:  1NT is highly descriptive bid.  1NT immediately clarfies playing strength and the prescence of a Spade stopper.  It leave partner well positioned to drive towards 3NT (the most likely game).  For a change we don't even have to worry about a stiff Heart...


The more you bid it with a stiff the less "highly descriptive" it becomes. All of those arguments are very compelling for 1N, but if partner wants a spade stopper and has some values he can find out about it over 2D. If we have the values for 3N, we will find it after a 2D overcall.

If your partner has something like x Axx xxxxx xxxx will you be getting to 5D after a 1N overcall?
0

#22 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2005-December-02, 16:07

awm, on Dec 2 2005, 09:05 AM, said:

I can't really imagine passing; this is a very strong hand with a good biddable suit. Really the choice seems to be between 2♦ and 1NT.

While Phil is right that partner may pass 2♦ with some misfitty hands that make 3NT, partner can also pass 1NT with many hands like: x Axxx xxxxx xxx. A bunch of junk, but 5♦ is excellent. The range of hands where partner passes 2♦ and we have game seems rather narrow to me -- with a good 9 or 10 points partner will scrounge a call, as my 2-level overcalls are fairly sound. With less and a few small diamonds partner may raise, with 5♥ and an eight-count partner will probably bid. So while there are a few hands like Phil's construction, I don't think they're that common. It seems more likely to me that partner has a lousy shapely hand with a diamond fit, and can't find a call over 1NT (but we can make 5♦). Bidding 1NT also gives LHO the chance to bid 2♣ or 2♥ (natural and not forcing) making it easier for the opponents to compete the hand.

I think with a lot of the odd layouts where we can fetch 5♦ (s/v♠; 4-5 ♦'s and a heart filler) our LHO is scraping together a ♠ raise.

Pard might find a Leb call over 2♠ or we might be able to balance with 3♦. Lots of possibilities.

OTOH, 2♦ might just end the auction when pard holds exactly the type of hand where 3N is good; since RHO doesn't have the goods to further compete.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#23 User is offline   Kalvan14 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 839
  • Joined: 2005-October-20

Posted 2005-December-02, 20:19

This time, 2♦, again without a lot of exhitation.
if we can get 3N, it will be as easily (or better) after bidding 2♦ than after 1N
0

#24 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2005-December-03, 09:12

This suit is one of the very few I could overcall having only 5 cards, yet 1NT seems better (scores better, helps finding ♥ fit, has a good competition if they bid 2♣ and describes the hand more acuratelly towards game. Only fails when partner is a bad boy and bids ♣s)
BridgeGod: my personal website with interactive problems and articles
0

#25 User is offline   ArcLight 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Joined: 2004-July-02
  • Location:Millburn, New Jersey
  • Interests:Rowing. Wargaming. Military history.

Posted 2005-December-03, 16:02

Kelsey recommended passing, because of length in openers suit.
0

#26 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2005-December-03, 20:35

ArcLight, on Dec 3 2005, 02:02 PM, said:

Kelsey recommended passing, because of length in openers suit.

Wow. A pass with this? Hard to believe you can be well-placed after most continuations.

I think its a 2 horse race between 1N and 2♦.

As I've said before, basic bidding judgment has evolved over the years; especially when it comes to competitive bidding. I don't expect a book on bidding judgement wrote 20 years ago to be much more relevant than a book on personal computers wrote in 1982.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#27 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2005-December-04, 02:43

What is the standard treatment for 1NT? I thought it was something like 11-14, but apparently most of you still play it strong...

I'd also bid 2♦ when playing regular methods.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#28 User is offline   Kalvan14 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 839
  • Joined: 2005-October-20

Posted 2005-December-04, 19:46

Free, on Dec 4 2005, 03:43 AM, said:

What is the standard treatment for 1NT? I thought it was something like 11-14, but apparently most of you still play it strong...

I'd also bid 2♦ when playing regular methods.

The standard treatment is that an immediate 1N overcall shows a strong NT. usually, all systems are on, but this is less standard.
11-14 is the standard range for balancing with 1N.
0
  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

3 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 3 guests, 0 anonymous users