[Poky]

IMP. We vul

♠KQJxx
♥K10xxx
♦-
♣AJx

1♥ (4♦) ???

Plan the bidding.

If you bid 5♦ you will hear 5♥. What next?

[Trpltrbl]

What next would really depend on what 5♦ and 5♥ ment.
I doubt that 5♦ is seen as exclusion.
But in Most pdships I would just bid 6♥.

GBB

[Robert]

Hello everyone

I would have assumed that 5Ds was 'voidwood.'

Assuming that 5H denys an Ace 'outside' of diamonds, I pass.

I am guessing that you are not playing 5Ds as 'voidwood' or 5H as denying an Ace 'outside' of diamonds, so I bid 6Hs.

I do not see a problem if you are playing 'voidwood.' If you were just making a noise with that 5D bid, you now get to gamble a pass or bid 6Hs. Grand slams should have pretty good chances to bid them.

Once 5Ds is decided to 'not be' voidwood, the auction is a gamble for any action that you take.

Regards,
Robert

[mikeh]

As with Justin.

I really dislike using any form of non-4N keycard in a jammed auction as your 1st bid. On a frequency basis, how often will you hold a hand on which your only concern is how many keycards partner has?

You are far more likely to hold a hand on which you wish to give and receive more general information.

Thus 5♦ announces a ♦ control and asks for co-operation in bidding slam.

You might have a weaker hand than this, so you cannot give up over 5♥.

Part of the problem is that partner, lacking any ♣ control, is going to be hard-pressed to bid beyond 5♥: he placed you with a small-slam invitational hand, not a grand-slam type hand. Thus he can still have the values you need.

Sure, bidding 6♥ now conveys the grand-slam interest you always had, but it does so in an unusual way. I would take 6♥ here as promising 1st round control of all side suits and a long but weak ♥ suit.

So 6♣ for me: forcing him to concentrate on his ♠ control.

I admit I would be nervous committing to grand opposite Axx Axxxx Qx Qxx because of the high risk of a 3-0 trump break, but you cannot cater to every possibility.

Question: should he bid grand with Axx QJxxx xx KQx on this auction?

My answer is no, but I am not entirely comfortable with the reasoning.

On a truly high level (I doubt that any partnershipp has an agreement here) there ought to be a meaning assignable to 6♦ and 6♥ by partner, having nothing to do with ♦, but that is way too esoteric and (apart from bidding forums) useless

[cherdano]

How about 6♦? This should show a void in diamonds I would think. Also partner should understand that ♥AQ is not enough, since then I would do 5NT GSF.

Arend

[pclayton]

If you are playing EKCB you need to set some ground rules - even if they aren't 'optimal'. One of my rules is that exclusion is always a jump if I'm in a jammed auction.

5♦ is a nice description. And I'll continue to hunt for the grand - over 5♠ I'll try 5N - GSF. Over 5♥, I'm not sure what I'll do because I can't get pard's interest - although I'd feel better if pard could try 6♦ as last train over my 6♣.

[Kalvan14]

What about bidding 5♠ over 5♥? I assume that the ♥ fit is well known. If pard counter-cues 5N (which is certainly the ♠A) I would bid 6♣

[mikeh]

Kalvan14, on Nov 8 2005, 07:29 PM, said:

What about bidding 5♠ over 5♥? I assume that the ♥ fit is well known. If pard counter-cues 5N (which is certainly the ♠A) I would bid 6♣

If you bid 5♠, you are showing the Ace. Even if, as I play, you frequently cue second round controls before 1st round controls, due to space and timing considerations, that cannot (in my view) be true in sequences like this. You can get away with ambiguous cue-ing when you have the bidding space to re-cue or keycard to establish 1st round control rather than 2nd. That is not available here, so 5♠ HAS to be the A.

[jdeegan]

5♦ and over 5♥ I plan to bid 6♣. If partner stops at six when seven makes, so be it. If six hearts goes down, I'm sorry, but how can I stop any lower with that hand.

[cherdano]

mikeh, on Nov 9 2005, 02:59 AM, said:

Kalvan14, on Nov 8 2005, 07:29 PM, said:

What about bidding 5♠ over 5♥? I assume that the ♥ fit is well known. If pard counter-cues 5N (which is certainly the ♠A) I would bid 6♣

If you bid 5♠, you are showing the Ace. Even if, as I play, you frequently cue second round controls before 1st round controls, due to space and timing considerations, that cannot (in my view) be true in sequences like this. You can get away with ambiguous cue-ing when you have the bidding space to re-cue or keycard to establish 1st round control rather than 2nd. That is not available here, so 5♠ HAS to be the A.

I agree, but Mike forgot to mention that bidding a second round control is a particularly bad idea when the cue bid is evidently a grand slam try.

Arend

[Chamaco]

These high level (4/5+) bidding problems are really instructive, keep them coming !

When I have time I'll try to put all the links to thee high level biding decisions into a single post/thread.

[FrancesHinden]

I was about to say 5D, what's the problem, when I saw cherdano's suggestion of 6D. I like this. It says at once

- I am interested in a grand slam
- I have a diamond void
- I'm not just after the AQ of hearts, or I'd have bid GSF

Partner will bid grand a lot of the time it's making.

Once we've decided we are prepared to drive to slam, I think we should say so at once. The problem with 5D is that we are left guessing again if LHO bids 6D and partner passes or bids 6H.

Of course, we may go off in 6 opposite x QJxxx Ax KQJxx but that's life.

[Fluffy]

5♦ is cue, 5♥ is negative. I would bid 6.

[whereagles]

Why not bid 4NT, on grounds that the odds are pard's aces will be in hearts and spades? If pard shows "2 + queen", it's a clear 7♥.

[han]

mikeh, on Nov 8 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

I really dislike using any form of non-4N keycard in a jammed auction as your 1st bid. On a frequency basis, how often will you hold a hand on which your only concern is how many keycards partner has?

I agree on this particular hand, but I would play that 1♥-(3♦)-5♦ is exclusion RKC, 4♦ is available as slam try in hearts. Of course, you might argue that that's not a jammed auction.

[mikeh]

Hannie, on Nov 10 2005, 02:48 PM, said:

mikeh, on Nov 8 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

I really dislike using any form of non-4N keycard in a jammed auction as your 1st bid. On a frequency basis, how often will you hold a hand on which your only concern is how many keycards partner has?

I agree on this particular hand, but I would play that 1♥-(3♦)-5♦ is exclusion RKC, 4♦ is available as slam try in hearts. Of course, you might argue that that's not a jammed auction.

Indeed I would

[Winstonm]

Jlall, on Nov 8 2005, 06:53 PM, said:

5D then 6C. For me 5D agrees hearts and is a slam try with a diamond control (5H would have been a slam try without a diamond control). 5H over 5D just shows a minimum. Grand is very much in the picture, I just need the major suit aces. Over 6C, I assume partner will bid 6D with the spade ace (6C denies a first round spade control) and a hand he likes, in which case I'll bid 7H. I don't see how we can give up on a grand over 5H when we need so little.

I like this idea but when you say diamond control is that first always? What if you held:

KQJxx
QJxxx
x
AQ

Is this still 5D over 4D?

As you play, what are the meanings here of:

4N, 5C, 5S, 6C, 6D?

Can you get to 5H without inferring a slam try?

Thanks,

Winston

[han]

Winston, 5D does not show a first round control in diamonds. 5H denies a first or second round control in diamonds.

The hand you give seems right for 5D, although a direct jump to 6H is also possible.

[beatrix45]

Jlall, on Nov 8 2005, 04:53 PM, said:

5D then 6C. For me 5D agrees hearts and is a slam try with a diamond control (5H would have been a slam try without a diamond control). 5H over 5D just shows a minimum. Grand is very much in the picture, I just need the major suit aces. Over 6C, I assume partner will bid 6D with the spade ace (6C denies a first round spade control) and a hand he likes, in which case I'll bid 7H. I don't see how we can give up on a grand over 5H when we need so little.

Listen and learn. Justin is telling you exactly how the best players would bid this hand. Cue bidding amongst these folks is conversational, so............... 5♦ indicates a diamond void (or ace), confirms a place to play (20 to 1 it is in hearts), and indicates that at least bidding a small slam is on the table.

If pard declines with 5♥, you can bid 6♣ on the way to six hearts to indicate that seven is still in the picture. Given any stronger bid, I guess that 7♥ is worth bidding, even tho we may be looking for the heart queen.