[Free]

You hold

Scoring: MP

---

And the bidding starts:
pass - pass - 1♣* - pass
1♦* - pass - 1NT - pass
?
(1♣ = 17+ any)
(1♦ = negative)

Partner now shows a balanced or semibalanced hand with 17-19(20)HCP. You use your normal 1NT structure over this. What do you do with this hand?

[Echognome]

Can I transfer to clubs and bid spades naturally? Only a 3 count, but the hand has tremendous shape. Furthermore, my "free bid" of spades will not be forcing as I've already limited my hand with 1♦.

[Mr. Dodgy]

2♥ - promising 4+ ♠s

using my normal 1NT methods, partner could now bid 2♠ (minimum), 2N (maximum with 4+♥s and 3+♠), 3♣ (maximum with 4+♣s and 3+♠), ), 3♦ (maximum with 4+♦s and 3+♠), or 3♠ (maximum with 4+♠s, flat).

over 2♠ - I mini splinter with 3♥, then 4♦.
over 2N - I spinter with 4♦
over 3♣ - I raise to 4♣
over 3♦ - I splinter with 4♥
over 3♠ - I splinter with 4♦

4♠ or 5♣ looks OK to me. slam seems rather unlikely - I think 21+ would be needed.

[Chamaco]

The hand can be very powerful or very weak, according to opener's wastage in the red suits.

I would tranfer to spades and pass unless pard super accepts.

There sure is defenitely a concrete chance of missing a game, but in MP field, I rate that not many will bid game.

So, even if we do miss the game, the potential loss will be less than if we do end up in game down 1 when most others will be in a partscore.

[ochinko]

Free, on Oct 25 2005, 01:16 PM, said:

You hold

Scoring: MP

---

And the bidding starts:
pass - pass - 1♣* - pass
1♦* - pass - 1NT - pass
?
(1♣ = 17+ any)
(1♦ = negative)

Partner now shows a balanced or semibalanced hand with 17-19(20)HCP. You use your normal 1NT structure over this. What do you do with this hand?

I transfer to spades, then bid my clubs. Partner won't pass 3C at MP even after the negative response. We should be playing a game here, 3NT, 4Sp, maybe even 5C. Yes, I like my hand that much. I don't care if it's MP, and we're not vuln, and we only have half of the points.

Petko

[pclayton]

Other tables rate to struggle with this hand. There's a good chance that partner will open 1♦ and it will swish around. Alternately, others will respond 1♠ and will play at the 3 level and higher.

If we somehow have a good fit in a black suit, the opponents have stayed strangely silent with their red suit fit.

Transfer to 2♠ and pass. I will compete to 4♣ over 3 of a red suit I think.

And this wouldn't be the 1st time I play 2♠ across from: Ax, Axx, Axxx, AQxx

[Trpltrbl]

Not being very familair with strong ♣, but you have limited your hand.
So I think I would transfer to ♣ and then bid 3♠, naturally.
I think this has to show 6-5 type hand, with 6-4 you could have bid stayman first and then bid 3♣ if pd bids 2♦, this should be NF, but like I said, I am not familair with system so this might mean something different in your system.

GBB

[Fluffy]

Woah, whatever I do I guess it will be wrong. I will transfer to a blakc suit and pass, but I am not sure of wich. 2♠ at MP sounds very appealing. But if partner can have singleton often I will do it to ♣s

[ochinko]

pclayton, on Oct 25 2005, 05:05 PM, said:

Other tables rate to struggle with this hand. There's a good chance that partner will open 1♦ and it will swish around. Alternately, others will respond 1♠ and will play at the 3 level and higher.

I think the opposite assuming most other tables play SAYC or 2/1.

If partner has only 17 HCP only we know that, because the opening would be 1NT. Others would know partner could have 15 as well, and will most likely stop at 2Sp. We have to take advantage of that extra information, otherwise why do we bother to play precision? This is our chance to nail the other pairs.

If partner has 18/19 there's a big chance that after 1D 1Sp is going to be bid, then a game will be reached, and with pretty good chances to make as well. So now we have to catch up with all the others fighting for 50% otherwise we'll score a clear zero.

Petko

[P_Marlowe]

Transfer to spade, if he super accepts,
bid 4S else pass.

Marlowe

[Al_U_Card]

Some may have to open 2NT and then they have a real problem. Xfr to S at the 2 level and pass or bid 4 if he superaccepts.

[han]

Transfer to spades and pass for me too (except if partner superaccepts).

[Impact]

2S as puppet to 2NT and then 3S= invitational at least 5+5+ in blacks....WTP? sure it could be wrong but I have given a fair description and will respect partner's bid (note that if my blacks were reversed I would just Texas into 4S and hope for the best at imps certainly)...

[pclayton]

ochinko, on Oct 25 2005, 08:37 AM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 25 2005, 05:05 PM, said:

Other tables rate to struggle with this hand. There's a good chance that partner will open 1♦ and it will swish around. Alternately, others will respond 1♠ and will play at the 3 level and higher.

I think the opposite assuming most other tables play SAYC or 2/1.

If partner has only 17 HCP only we know that, because the opening would be 1NT. Others would know partner could have 15 as well, and will most likely stop at 2Sp. We have to take advantage of that extra information, otherwise why do we bother to play precision? This is our chance to nail the other pairs.

If partner has 18/19 there's a big chance that after 1D 1Sp is going to be bid, then a game will be reached, and with pretty good chances to make as well. So now we have to catch up with all the others fighting for 50% otherwise we'll score a clear zero.

Petko

I think the description said 1N = 17-19/20. So pard holding a 15 count is out.

With a 17 count, we are on level ground with the tables where 1N is opened.

With 18-19 (I'm assuming that other tables are playing standard), pard will open with something - probably a natural 1♦ or 1♣ (much less likely). When the other table opens 1♦, we will play in a far better strain (non-♦'s) or a lower level (2 vs 3). Either way, we are on better footing.

Only when pard opens a natural 1♣ are we poorer (and MUCH poorer) placed. But I'll wager that pard is more likely to open 1♦.

Precision isn't set up to 'nail' other pairs in auctions like this. The potential swings only come from the differential in various NT ranges.

[mikeh]

I have a method that shows 10xxxx x x Kxxxxx so I am going to use it here: WTP?

If we have a special method that shows the hand on display, great: but then you wouldn't be posting this hand because it would be a non-issue. (You might well end up posting hands that your method doesn't handle and that others think is trivial in theirs).

If you play 4 way transfers, many pairs use the 3-level major suit (after 1N 2♠ 3♣) as shortness, to avoid bad 3N contracts when opener has weak ♠. So for many the sequence of transfer to ♣ and bid ♠ will not work. I am not saying which is better: it depends on the hand you hold.

Even if you can bid this way (or show 5-5 blacks) this will not always work: Axx KQJx KQxx Qx will not offer much play for whatever game you play (and despite the 1♦ negative, surely any rational method for showing both suits must be gf)

So I would happily bid 2♥ transfer and pass unless partner shows a super-accept.

As I have suggested before, trying to bid every game that may be in the cards leads to insanity and very, very bad bridge.

When a hand hits a seam in your method, either change your methods or live with it. And all methods have seams, so live with that as well.

[Impact]

mikeh, on Oct 25 2005, 10:04 PM, said:

I have a method that shows 10xxxx x x Kxxxxx so I am going to use it here: WTP?

If we have a special method that shows the hand on display, great: but then you wouldn't be posting this hand because it would be a non-issue. (You might well end up posting hands that your method doesn't handle and that others think is trivial in theirs).

If you play 4 way transfers, many pairs use the 3-level major suit (after 1N 2♠ 3♣) as shortness, to avoid bad 3N contracts when opener has weak ♠. So for many the sequence of transfer to ♣ and bid ♠ will not work. I am not saying which is better: it depends on the hand you hold.

Even if you can bid this way (or show 5-5 blacks) this will not always work: Axx KQJx KQxx Qx will not offer much play for whatever game you play (and despite the 1♦ negative, surely any rational method for showing both suits must be gf)

So I would happily bid 2♥ transfer and pass unless partner shows a super-accept.

As I have suggested before, trying to bid every game that may be in the cards leads to insanity and very, very bad bridge.

When a hand hits a seam in your method, either change your methods or live with it. And all methods have seams, so live with that as well.

Mike,

The point is that after a negative to a strong bid and then rebid in NT, the "usual methods" adopted by most people which are suited to their opening 1NT are actually NOT suited to the auction for the simple reason that they give greater weight to GF auctions - but while you may not have denied a GF the vast majority of negative hands will be at most invitational, and you wish to maximise those hands.

Hence the appropriate auction and methods is unsurprisingly different from standard.


regards,

fred

[HeartA]

Jlall, on Oct 25 2005, 08:57 AM, said:

my first thought was just transfer to clubs and jump to 4S (or whatever my methods are to show 5-6 limited) but then I noticed it's MP. I'm just going to transfer to spades and pass I think, the very low road.

To transfer to minors usually denies majors. "transfer to clubs and jump to 4S" would show singleton or void in ♠.

I would transfer to ♠ and then bid 3♣. If it is overbid, so be it.

[han]

Ritong once suggested that I'd play the same way (as what Justin says).