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Another undiscussed auction How would you interpret it?

#1 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 08:50

RHO deals and opens; here goes:

(1♦) - Dbl. - (1♠) - 3♣

Without having discussed this auction with your partner (this is the first time you've played together), how would you interpret partner's 3♣ bid?

Put another way, what do you believe is the "standard" interpretation of 3♣ in this auction?
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#2 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 08:55

Is it not the same as without the 1S bid, i.e. 5+ clubs and 8+ points? Perhaps we'd expect a little more now we're at the 3-level and both opps have bid.

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#3 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 08:55

The easy part: It shows clubs. :)
The mediocre part: How long most often 5-6 clubs.
The difficult part: How strong: I have no idea, I would take it as a good suit and will not care about HCPS too much. I guess in about 90 % of the cases where everybody bids, you will not have a game bound on HCPS. Maybe you have a game based on shape, so shape showing bids should be the key, not strength showing bids.
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#4 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 08:57

View PostCodo, on 2012-March-01, 08:55, said:

The easy part: It shows clubs. :)

I should be taking notes, shouldn't I?
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#5 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 09:37

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-March-01, 08:57, said:

I should be taking notes, shouldn't I?


Luckily it's all typed out for you :)

Sadly, I wasn't going to be able to give a much better answer than Codo. I would expect it to show good constructive to limit values--something like 8+ to 12 HCP ish, but I don't know what's "standard".
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#6 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 09:41

View PostBunnyGo, on 2012-March-01, 09:37, said:

I would expect it to show good constructive to limit values--something like 8+ to 12 HCP ish . . . .

If 3♣ shows this, what would 2♣ show?
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#7 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 09:45

Clubs, Invitational.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#8 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 09:46

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-March-01, 09:41, said:

If 3♣ shows this, what would 2♣ show?

Clubs, Competitive values.
With kind regards
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#9 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 10:50

Indeed - I'd expect 2C was something like xxxx Axx x QJxxx. 3C would be more like xxx AQx x KJ10xxx.

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#10 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 11:08

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-March-01, 09:41, said:

If 3♣ shows this, what would 2♣ show?


What Marlow said. Competitive vs Inv. values roughly (5- bad 8) and (good 8-12)
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#11 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 11:17

View PostBunnyGo, on 2012-March-01, 11:08, said:

What Marlow said. Competitive vs Inv. values roughly (5- bad 8) and (good 8-12)

How about a double, or either cue bid (2♦ or 2♠)?

As you can see, I'm trying to narrow it down to it-can't-mean-that-because-this-other-action-would-mean-that.

Thanks for all the good posts, by the way!
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#12 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 11:24

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-March-01, 11:17, said:

How about a double, or either cue bid (2♦ or 2♠)?

As you can see, I'm trying to narrow it down to it-can't-mean-that-because-this-other-action-would-mean-that.

Thanks for all the good posts, by the way!


double would show a spade suit. Otherwise you can expect your opponents to psyche 1♠ on you every time.

Cuebidding shows more points and at least one rounded suit (potentially both).
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#13 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 12:12

View PostBunnyGo, on 2012-March-01, 11:24, said:

Cuebidding shows more points and at least one rounded suit (potentially both).

Both 2♦ and 2♠ show this? Seems wasteful.
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#14 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 12:40

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-March-01, 12:12, said:

Both 2♦ and 2♠ show this? Seems wasteful.


Probably is, I'd be interested myself to hear what the difference is. I don't know what its standard meaning is.
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#15 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 12:41

:P I guess it shows lottsa clubs and not enough to force or strongly invite game. 3♣ has to be a decent spot even if pard has a doubleton and a minimum.
♠ AQxx
♥ Q10xxx
♦ Ax
♣ xx
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#16 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 13:14

Double would show spades and a cue bid without hearts would have to be quite strong, which is unlikely on this auction. So just about any hand with single suited clubs that cannot bid NT is going to bid either 2♣ or 3♣. Compared to the case where RHO passes, the minimum strength for 2♣ is higher (because you can now pass with bad hands) so the minimum strength for 3♣ should be a little higher as well. But it is still natural and invitational.
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#17 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 13:16

"Cuebidding" spades is traditionally played as natural (5 cards).

I think 3C is much the same as without the 1S bid, although slightly better. The suggested xxx AQx x KJ10xxx is too good for 3C (also it has a singleton diamond which is very unlikely). With, say, x AQx xxx KJ10xxx, if I had to guess a contract it would be 5C. If partner has the magic ace of spades he doesn't much else in his takeout double (Axxx Kxxx x Axxx makes 6C easily)

I don't think 2C has to have 5 clubs - with xx Kxx xxxx KQ10x want to bid my club suit.
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#18 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 13:17

X is 4 spades.
2S is natural with 5 spades or a real good 4.

2D is your available cuebid. Partner showed the other 3 suits, so we should have the ability to bid them naturally here.

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#19 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 16:46

I can't remember the author but I was fond of his description of a bid like this as "weakly invitational", ie. all shape no D.

That's what I'm playing it for and we'll find out if it was invitational to a game or a dive after the fact.
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#20 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2012-March-01, 17:16

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-March-01, 08:50, said:

RHO deals and opens; here goes:

(1♦) - Dbl. - (1♠) - 3♣

Without having discussed this auction with your partner (this is the first time you've played together), how would you interpret partner's 3♣ bid?

Put another way, what do you believe is the "standard" interpretation of 3♣ in this auction?



x...xxx....Axx....AQxxxx
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