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You may not agree with the first pass, but there you are. What now?
BPO 9 - Hand 2 Discussion thread
#1
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Posted 2011-January-31, 15:36
You may not agree with the first pass, but there you are. What now?
#2
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Posted 2011-January-31, 16:07
Yes, I disagree with the first pass, but not everyone will. I think 2♠ is obvious what I'd bid.
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#3
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Posted 2011-January-31, 16:14
I think the choice is only between some number of hearts. 2♠ seems to me like it should be a good hand with two places to play, and I don't have them -- I just want to play hearts.
3♥ seems right to me.
3♥ seems right to me.
#4
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Posted 2011-January-31, 16:38
I thought this was a clear double the round before, and a clear 2♠ call now. We don't want to unilaterally suggest hearts, especially facing a partner who was under pressure.
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Posted 2011-January-31, 17:19
2h pard is a passed hand and I wont play him for a perfect max. Keepin it low at mp.
prefer x before.
prefer x before.
#6
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Posted 2011-January-31, 17:20
Would have Xed before.
I chose 2♥, this hand stinks. IfRHO LHO can't come up with a 2♠ competition w/r then I'm worried we're losing the first 3 tricks in spades and something later. If he can then we can compete again later, knowing that partner has the spade shortness.
I chose 2♥, this hand stinks. If
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.
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#7
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Posted 2011-January-31, 18:02
Abstain.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
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#8
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Posted 2011-February-01, 01:41
I bid 2♥, partner is a passed hand and this hand is not amazing
#9
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Posted 2011-February-01, 02:41
Would have doubled the round before. I bid 2♥ now. I don't understand aiming higher with a passed partner who doubled in protective position. What hand are we playing for to make game?
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Posted 2011-February-01, 03:52
Echognome, on 2011-February-01, 02:41, said:
Would have doubled the round before. I bid 2♥ now. I don't understand aiming higher with a passed partner who doubled in protective position. What hand are we playing for to make game?
It would help to know if the opponents are the ones who would never pass 1♠ with 3, but assuming they're not, I dunno, how about x KQxx KQxx xxxx? If you think singleton spade is not possible, then it'll be a little harder, but how about xx KQx Kxx Qxxxx or the like?
#11
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Posted 2011-February-01, 15:20
Does anyone think it at all inconsistent to say that this is both a takeout double of 1♠ and a 2♥ response to a takeout double of 1♠?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#12
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Posted 2011-February-01, 15:58
gnasher, on 2011-February-01, 15:20, said:
Does anyone think it at all inconsistent to say that this is both a takeout double of 1♠ and a 2♥ response to a takeout double of 1♠?
I don't see why. Partner's takeout double contains hands that would bid 2H (ok, that's unlikely), 3H or 4H over our takeout double - as well as hands that would not bid hearts at all. Since we passed, we can't find out any more whether we have a heart fit, so we go low. Especially as it is impossible to show our hand now.
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#13
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Posted 2011-February-01, 16:03
cherdano, on 2011-February-01, 15:58, said:
I don't see why. Partner's takeout double contains hands that would bid 2H (ok, that's unlikely), 3H or 4H over our takeout double - as well as hands that would not bid hearts at all. Since we passed, we can't find out any more whether we have a heart fit, so we go low. Especially as it is impossible to show our hand now.
Agree with this, and we'd probably pass any NF bid from partner had we made a takeout X. While partner is still likely to have a decent hand I think expecting something that might make 4♥ is optimistic, if partner even has 4 hearts. On a really bad day, partner has balanced with some crap like xxx, Kxx, Kxxx, KQx
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.
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#14
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Posted 2011-February-01, 16:11
gnasher, on 2011-February-01, 15:20, said:
Does anyone think it at all inconsistent to say that this is both a takeout double of 1♠ and a 2♥ response to a takeout double of 1♠?
Not really. Our takeout of 1♠ was not to force to game right? If partner invites are we accepting given that he is a passed hand? We obviously have a different problem if partner is not a PH.
Again, if we make a t/o dbl the round before, then we have bid our values have we not? Now that we have described a different hand to partner (not necessarily less in values, just a different shape and location of values), it's hard to know the best way to describe our hand from here.
In the end, I guess this is why "abstain" is popular. We are discussing the hypothetical consistency between two different sequences.
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Posted 2011-February-01, 20:52
Being Vul, Id trust my p, bid 4H.......I can visualize p's hand w 5-6 small H w support for both minors albeit 4-3 w prob 1 S at the most.....prob 9-11 count
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Posted 2011-February-01, 21:37
CCWryde, on 2011-February-01, 20:52, said:
Being Vul, Id trust my p, bid 4H.......I can visualize p's hand w 5-6 small H w support for both minors albeit 4-3 w prob 1 S at the most.....prob 9-11 count
I never knew 'trust' was synonymous with 'hang'.
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#17
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Posted 2011-February-02, 07:35
I think Dbl in 1st seat is really obvious, having to decide now what to do is rather difficult. I guess 3♥...
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#18
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Posted 2011-February-02, 07:49
mr1303, on 2011-January-31, 15:36, said:
You may not agree with the first pass, but there you are. What now?
- Over 1♠, _P = 10, _X = 8.
- Now, 2♠ = 10, 4♥ = 9, 2N = 8, 3♥ = 7, 1N = 5, 2♥ = 4. partner will have difficulty imagining the power of your hand, so is likely to pass an invitational bid, even when game is on. 2♠ is flexible but may wrong-side the contract.
Phil, on 2011-February-01, 21:37, said:
I never knew 'trust' was synonymous with 'hang'.
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Posted 2011-February-02, 11:03
gnasher, on 2011-February-01, 15:20, said:
Does anyone think it at all inconsistent to say that this is both a takeout double of 1♠ and a 2♥ response to a takeout double of 1♠?
No, depends a bit on what we expect for a balancing takeout double. I do think that 2H would be an underbid.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
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Posted 2011-February-08, 17:29
Here is the full hand:
Our pass the round before wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea, but it certainly is liveable. Especially since our 3 cards in spades make it likely pard is short there and will thus balance with some hcp. Which he in fact did.
Having gotten here, most think we should make some sort of game try and I agree. The question is how hard should we try for game? Will a slight hint with 3♥ be enough or should we cue now and bid hearts later? As you can see game is cold, although it's lucky one: all the hcp are working full time and that is something the invitational bids at our disposal cannot gauge.
For better or worse, overbidding works well here and I think 2♠ is more likely to reach game here than 3♥, so that will get a higher score. Only a few in the field reached game, though.
You might notice opener could have made our task harder by rebidding 2♠ himself, since then perhaps 3♥ would be kind of our only choice. But he didn't. That's what happened at table anyway.
Our pass the round before wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea, but it certainly is liveable. Especially since our 3 cards in spades make it likely pard is short there and will thus balance with some hcp. Which he in fact did.
Having gotten here, most think we should make some sort of game try and I agree. The question is how hard should we try for game? Will a slight hint with 3♥ be enough or should we cue now and bid hearts later? As you can see game is cold, although it's lucky one: all the hcp are working full time and that is something the invitational bids at our disposal cannot gauge.
For better or worse, overbidding works well here and I think 2♠ is more likely to reach game here than 3♥, so that will get a higher score. Only a few in the field reached game, though.
You might notice opener could have made our task harder by rebidding 2♠ himself, since then perhaps 3♥ would be kind of our only choice. But he didn't. That's what happened at table anyway.